View Poll Results: Is there a War on Women?

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    34 23.29%
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    80 54.79%
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Thread: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

  1. #481
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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    There must be a war, or there can be no 'victims'.
    I quoted this post because it was so succinct. I'll try to be the same in one sentence, but it will need some expatiation. If you don't follow the rules you're in trouble. The rules are supported by culture and were created long ago. They were rational solutions to problems and desires when societies were essentially tribes and rules were needed to survive. The rules just had to work well enough, they had to 'solve' the problem of the functional differences between males and females; but, they needn't be more uniform than that. Things have changed, many rules are functionally unnecessary now; but, they are necessary to keep certain people in power. The rules in America are not exactly uniform, but close. In my opinion black evangelical rules are slightly different from white evangelical rules, Jew and Christian more different. This is not a war, it's the way culture changes in the modern world, but it might be useful to call it war politically.

    An observation we've noted: In East Michigan, e.g. the city of Holland, we observe behavior between young women and men that would be aligned with San Diego CA in the 50's. I have to note that the out of wedlock birth rate in Holland MI is one of the highest in the country, so the rules aren't controlling behavior much.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 04-27-12 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Right. Wages/salaries. It's not so much a 'well known' issue, so much as 'well known' podium.

    Fact is, women generally seek employment in the service sector (which is overwhelmingly female dominated), where salaries are lower than those in the private sector. Men also work longer hours, take less leave, less sick days and traditionally dominate the higher-risk occupations. Of course, these factors are usually omitted form the overall picture. Instead, we focus upon the 20% less result.

    As per crime statistics, shall we honestly apply them to the majority of women, who never suffer such crimes in their lives?

    Overall, do you believe women are ruthlessly and brutally oppressed in society, by ruthless and brutal men? You sound as though you'd like to avoid giving a straight yes or no answer to this. I believe that's because we both know what the answer is, don't we? Only, unlike yourself, I don't mind the anger it's likely to incur from the feminist quarter.

    I go so far as to say that only a man's opinion matters to me, regarding gender issues. I already know what the feminists think, and the majority of women who aren't feminists, will meekly stand by and allow feminists to speak for them.
    i don't think its ruthless and brutal or any other loaded word, but i do believe that women are at a disadvantage. i don't think its deliberate to any large degree.

    moreover i find your framing to be somewhat oyt of the scope in which i regard this issue, thus my answer does not fit neatly into a yes or no answer as the some of the adjectives you use don't really apoly.

    so the straight answer to your question is no, given the way you asked it but i do believe there are issues.

  3. #483
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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I just pointed out that the Wisconsin repealed their equal pay act, requiring equal pay for equal work. The GOP blocked the Ledbetter legislation under Bush, it finally made it through in 2009. These are not examples of equal pay for different work.
    And does any of that address the factors I cited as being contributory to the overall disparity? No.

    The US has the highest level of rape of the major industrial states, most case go unreported.
    Now prove that most women are raped. And that most men are rapists. Because if you can't do that, the rape card is moot, and you're looking to portray women as defenceless victims. Men also are raped. As are children. Will you 'fight' for those too?

    In the meantime, you could always research the statistics for domestic child beating, with the same assiduity you demonstrate for rape. I assure you, it paints not quite the picture of women as holy vessels of sacrosanct purity.

  4. #484
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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Those were questions. I'm making the argument that women aren't victims. If you believe I'm wrong, by all means, prove it.
    I have been, you apparently missed all of my previous posts to Zyp.


    And hey, look. Abortion is legal.
    Sure it is..somewhat. The point is that the access is being curtailed, new requirements are being put in place causing shutdowns, funding is being cut to the clinics that provide abortion services via their own funding causing reduced access and closures, contraception coverage is being reduced through legislative actions....it is happening at an increasing rate.

    Go figure huh?
    I don't think my bringing any of this to your attention will make a bit of difference, you seemed to have shut most of it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    i don't think its ruthless and brutal or any other loaded word, but i do believe that women are at a disadvantage. i don't think its deliberate to any large degree.

    moreover i find your framing to be somewhat oyt of the scope in which i regard this issue, thus my answer does not fit neatly into a yes or no answer as the some of the adjectives you use don't really apoly.

    so the straight answer to your question is no, given the way you asked it but i do believe there are issues.
    Trust me, dude. For feminists, it is is precisely this simple. It only becomes somehow 'more complex' when men debate it. As far as feminists are concerned, women are victims. That's it. For them, there is nothing simpler.

    What disadvantages do you identify for women?

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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I have been, you apparently missed all of my previous posts to Zyp.
    I did.

    Sure it is..somewhat. The point is that the access is being curtailed, new requirements are being put in place causing shutdowns, funding is being cut to the clinics that provide abortion services via their own funding causing reduced access and closures, contraception coverage is being reduced through legislative actions....it is happening at an increasing rate.

    I don't think my bringing any of this to your attention will make a bit of difference, you seemed to have shut most of it out.
    Either that, or you're making the case that gender inequality is a matter solely of abortion. I'm pro-choice, btw.

  7. #487
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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    And does any of that address the factors I cited as being contributory to the overall disparity? No.
    Yes, it counters your denial that there is not a disparity in pay for equal work. You framed all the difference in pay as being a result of different work, different hours worked.


    Now prove that most women are raped.
    Most? Is that what it would take to get you to accept that it occurs at a significant level?


    And that most men are rapists.
    Again, this isn't like a majority vote situation, we are talking about crime statistics.

    Because if you can't do that, the rape card is moot, and you're looking to portray women as defenceless victims. Men also are raped. As are children. Will you 'fight' for those too?
    Um, in the US, 92% of rape victims ARE women. The occurrence is very high compared to other industrial states. Again, you don't want to accept the level at all.

    In the meantime, you could always research the statistics for domestic child beating, with the same assiduity you demonstrate for rape. I assure you, it paints not quite the picture of women as holy vessels of sacrosanct purity.
    WTF? Is that what you think I am trying to prove?

    Wow, you are exposing an interesting side.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #488
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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    I did.
    Well, then if you care to look at it it is only a page before where you came in today.


    Either that, or you're making the case that gender inequality is a matter solely of abortion. I'm pro-choice, btw.
    Funny, I brought up examples of equal pay, contraception.

    If you are pro-choice, do you agree with the restrictions that are being put in place at an increasing rate?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #489
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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Yes, it counters your denial that there is not a disparity in pay for equal work. You framed all the difference in pay as being a result of different work, different hours worked.
    With the result that the disparity is not the inequality it's portrayed as. If you worked longer hours, and took less holiday and sickness leave, you'd expect to earn more, right? Is that discriminatory? Of course not.


    Most? Is that what it would take to get you to accept that it occurs at a significant level? Again, this isn't like a majority vote situation, we are talking about crime statistics. Um, in the US, 92% of rape victims ARE women. The occurrence is very high compared to other industrial states. Again, you don't want to accept the level at all.
    If gender inequality is of such doubtless magnitude, you'll forgive me if I ask you to prove that rape affects the majority, since the rape card is what you've decided to play, in order to project an image of such horrendous privation. And I guess you believe that when men or children are raped, it's not so unpleasant an experience. Ya know, since it's less frequent.

    WTF? Is that what you think I am trying to prove?

    Wow, you are exposing an interesting side.
    Cheers. I'm an interesting guy.

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    Re: Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Well, then if you care to look at it it is only a page before where you came in today.
    Alright.

    Funny, I brought up examples of equal pay, contraception.

    If you are pro-choice, do you agree with the restrictions that are being put in place at an increasing rate?
    We've discussed equal pay already. I've explained just why the statistics look so one-sided.

    And of course I don't agree with any restrictions on access to abortion. Aside from the fact that I believe a woman's body is her own business, do you think I'd like for women and their feminist handlers to have one more club to wield?

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