View Poll Results: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

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    38 97.44%
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    1 2.56%
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Thread: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Perhaps some of what happens there may be construed as debate. As to the rest .......

    But you are still not in one now.

    Present your verifiable evidence - that is the way debate works. Of course you are again impotent to do so.

    In fact, take all night and I will check back in the morning to see what you came up with. And if anybody cured cancer today, please post that too so I can be doubly surprised.
    do you admit or deny that it is the GOP pushing for VOTER ID laws and do you

    admit or deny that the Dems are opposed to those laws

  2. #62
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Voter fraud is NOT a real problem.

    Voter fraud is NOT a significant problem.

    Voter fraud is NOT a problem that requires any action.

    Do I need to repeat myself?
    Given that most verified instances of voter fraud have tended to skew elections in the direction that you appear to favor, I can see why you would deny that it is a problem.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    Fraudulent votes can and could have changed the outcome in many elections.
    Please post evidence.
    One very clear example was the 1996 election for California's 47th Congressional district. Loretta Sanchez, the democratic candidate, ran a campaign that specifically encouraged illegal aliens to vote,(and, of course, to vote for her). She defeated the incumbent, Bob Dornan, by less than a thousand votes. 648 votes were proven to be illegal; credible estimates suggest that there may have been as many as approximately 4700 illegal votes cast in that election.

    We cannot really know for certain, but it is extremely likely that this particular election outcome was changed as a direct result of illegal voting; that if not for such fraud, Dornan would have been reelected.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #64
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Are you suggesting that democrats are so stupid that they can't ho their happy ass to the DMV to get a ID, that only registered republicans are the only ones smart enough to go down to the DMV to get a ID or that only stupid people vote for democrats?
    It is certainly telling that, so far, only those on the side that tends to benefit from voter fraud have denied that it is a problem.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  5. #65
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yes the should verify. How so? Via photo id - electronic registration. Votes by the dead, pets, non-citizens, or duplicates should be identified and removed. If a photo ID is not available during voting, a vote can still be taken (provisional) such that the vote can be verified and either successfully added or discounted. The FEC or State election body's should produce a public report of votes which were found to be duplicates or invalid with the reason why those items showed up. Nothing will be perfect or 100%, however it would be an improvement and it would give credibility to the voting process and reduce (IMO) the accusations of voter fraud and tampering.
    Without commenting on the ID issue etc... (which I have already done in a different thread, ad naseum) I just want to point out that provisional ballots are not counted right away. They are often not counted at all. So why make an attempt at voting if your vote will not be counted -- that is voter disenfranchisement. The rolls can be purged without ID as well.

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  6. #66
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    50 years ago, I would have said it wasn't necessary, but with the changes in society which have happened since then, I now think it's needed. It's sad to say that alot of people can't be trusted to be honest.
    I would prefer a voter photo ID, and adequate polling workers to verify it.
    proof that people can't be trusted to be honest any more or less than in the past?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    “Reading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.”
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  7. #67
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    oh-- I keep forgetting this one for some reason...
    Can someone please explain to me how the "stupid (ignorant, uneducated, incompetent etc...) people" are the ones who vote dem when you are arguing about this and in other cases the "elite liberals" educated by those fancy institutions are the ones voting dem? Does this mean the uneducated and the educated are voting dem? Who's left to vote on the republican line?

    btw -- i despise the "two party" system and have never affiliated myself one way or the other.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    “Reading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.”
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  8. #68
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    do you admit or deny that it is the GOP pushing for VOTER ID laws and do you

    admit or deny that the Dems are opposed to those laws
    Right wing forces in America are pushing voter ID laws because they believe it will cause a disenfranchisement of non white voters and allow them to overcome the increasing demographic disadvantage that is going to occur over the next three or four decades. As a large segment of the right wing makes up the Republican Party, they are playing a major role in this drive.

    People concerned about Constitutional rights and civil libertarians are rightly opposing this effort to disenfranchise people. As a significant part of the Democratic Party is made up of people who place a high value and priority on the right to vote, the tend to oppose it.

    In the end, it is not political considerations or even ideological considerations that should decide this question but rather the first consideration should be the NEED or NECESSITY for such voter restrictions. Why, at this pint in time, do we need to adopt these restrictions which could effectively hurt the right of people to vote? In a democratic republic such as ours, no right is more central to our political health than the right to vote. So where is the need to do this?

    Where is the list of voter fraud convictions that provide the underpinnings to show that this is needed and necessary? It simply does not exist. If you think it does, please present it.

    So which side is arguing for change? And which side is failing to present any evidence of a significant problem of voter fraud to justify their schemes and plans to deny people the right to vote?

    Of course, it is the Republican Party. There is no doubt about that.

    Yes, I am a Democrat. Yes, I make my living working for a Democrat. Yes, I give political and election advice as part of that living. And yes, I support EVERYONE voting who is eligible to vote. We should be exploring laws to make voting easier - not harder.

    What does it say about a particular political party when the stated assumption of even their own supporters and backers is that they need to disenfranchise others so they have a chance to win? What does it say about a particular political party when their members go on record as NOT wanting people to vote because it threatens their own selfish agenda?

    It is sad. Very very sad.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It is certainly telling that, so far, only those on the side that tends to benefit from voter fraud have denied that it is a problem.
    Please present your verifiable evidence of voter fraud convictions since the 2000 election cycle so we also can see that a real problem exists. The suggestion that one side rejects voter ID laws is irrelevant unless you can first demonstrate that a significant voter fraud problem does in deed exist.

    And you have not done nor has anyone on your side of this issue.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #70
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    Re: Should the govt verify the identity of a person attempting to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    One very clear example was the 1996 election for California's 47th Congressional district. Loretta Sanchez, the democratic candidate, ran a campaign that specifically encouraged illegal aliens to vote,(and, of course, to vote for her). She defeated the incumbent, Bob Dornan, by less than a thousand votes. 648 votes were proven to be illegal; credible estimates suggest that there may have been as many as approximately 4700 illegal votes cast in that election.

    We cannot really know for certain, but it is extremely likely that this particular election outcome was changed as a direct result of illegal voting; that if not for such fraud, Dornan would have been reelected.
    Could you please provide a link to the trials and convictions of voter fraud in this example you are citing?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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