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Is it time to cut and run from Afghanistan?

Is it time to cut and run from Afghanistan?

  • Yes, as quickly as possible

    Votes: 28 87.5%

  • No, we should stay and continue the mission.

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • Total voters
    32
MoSurveyor said:
Bush's "service" was typical for Silver Spoons of the time. He was far from the only one - IF you had the money and/or connections to swing it. If you were Joe Average you prayed when they announced the next birth date(s) that it wouldn't be yours.
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Not sure of the relevancy, point is, he lauds this coast guard droupout, but I am sure was like you, slamming bush's service. :shrug:



I also disagreed with the War in Iraq II and for the same reasons we didn't finish that filthy place off in 1991 - there was no good exit strategy. Bush knew this and declined to get us into a decade long war. I suppose Shrub had something to prove to Daddy but only managed to make a fool of himself. Had we stayed focused on Afghanistan (a war I do support) we would have completed the mission and been out of there years ago with far fewer casualties. Iraq was a mistake, Afghanistan was a requirement.
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When you use words like "shrub" it's hard to take you seriously. daily kos speak, is so hackey..... Bush I actually wanted to go, the UN had other plans. Such as UNSCAM. But again, you missed the whole point of my retort.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Not sure of the relevancy, point is, he lauds this coast guard droupout, but I am sure was like you, slamming bush's service. :shrug:

When you use words like "shrub" it's hard to take you seriously. daily kos speak, is so hackey..... Bush I actually wanted to go, the UN had other plans. Such as UNSCAM. But again, you missed the whole point of my retort.
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I knew people that didn't have the option of staying at home like Bush did. Perhaps that makes a difference? It's one thing to volunteer for service as you did and quite another to be dragged out of your home into the middle of a war, often with insufficient training and equipment to survive well.

I use Shrub because I hate using all the Bush Jr/Bush Sr crap. I am no fan of Junior at all but I voted for Bush in '88 - and Reagan before him.


I really didn't want to get in the middle of your argument there but I wanted you to be aware, many of us that do support the military and have no issues with going to war did not approve of Iraq II. It seemed to me like you felt only "peace lovers" disapproved. I appreciate your service, and you serving there was admirable as is any active service, but that doesn't mean we approved of the decision to go there in the first place.
 
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MoSurveyor said:
I knew people that didn't have the option of staying at home like Bush did. Perhaps that makes a difference? It's one thing to volunteer for service as you did and quite another to be dragged out of your home into the middle of a war, often with insufficient training and equipment to survive well.
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I think he wasn't the only one who had it easy during that time, however, judging him more harshly than others, just screeches of partisanism.


it was a billet, he filled it, he served, was honorably discharged. Most officers have it easier. :shrug:


I use Shrub because I hate using all the Bush Jr/Bush Sr crap. I am no fan of Junior at all but I voted for Bush in '88 - and Reagan before him.
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W works, being insulting to the man is no better than me calling Obama "hussein" "Dear leader" et al. I try not to do it, I don't like seeing it either.


I really didn't want to get in the middle of your argument there but I wanted you to be aware, many of us that do support the military and have no issues with going to war did not approve of Iraq II. It seemed to me like you felt only "peace lovers" disapproved. I appreciate your service, and you serving there was admirable as is any active service, but that doesn't mean we approved of the decision to go there in the first place.
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If you read my posts in thier entirety, I know several actual Iraq vets, (not coast guard drop outs), who are against the war, I just take umbrage when someone who was unwilling to serve, pretends to speak for all of us.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
I think he wasn't the only one who had it easy during that time, however, judging him more harshly than others, just screeches of partisanism.
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I didn't and noted that:
... was typical for Silver Spoons of the time. He was far from the only one ...
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Still doesn't make it right, especially for someone who was pushing a political career even then. Bush volunteered (not for the reserves, though that was his first post before being sent to the Pacific) and his son should have done the same as far as I'm concerned.

ReverendHellh0und said:
W works, being insulting to the man is no better than me calling Obama "hussein" "Dear leader" et al. I try not to do it, I don't like seeing it either.
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'W' does not work for me. That familiarization like he's just some Joe sitting on the next bar stool just reeks of spin. It's too bad they couldn't have come up with something a little less familiar sounding.

ReverendHellh0und said:
If you read my posts in thier entirety, I know several actual Iraq vets, (not coast guard drop outs), who are against the war, I just take umbrage when someone who was unwilling to serve, pretends to speak for all of us.
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I agree but I've also noted that's just the way he is. We've been having our disagreements in the Iran thread. I think if Iran doesn't give up the nuke program then we should bomb some of their sites. He, of course, disagrees to say the least. ;)
 
MoSurveyor said:
I didn't and noted that: Still doesn't make it right, especially for someone who was pushing a political career even then. Bush volunteered (not for the reserves, though that was his first post before being sent to the Pacific) and his son should have done the same as far as I'm concerned.
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He did more than many, including Clinton. :shrug:


'W' does not work for me. That familiarization like he's just some Joe sitting on the next bar stool just reeks of spin. It's too bad they couldn't have come up with something a little less familiar sounding.
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Shrub makes you sound like one of our resident partisan hacks, you should just be aware at that and continue as you see fit.


I agree but I've also noted that's just the way he is. We've been having our disagreements in the Iran thread. I think if Iran doesn't give up the nuke program then we should bomb some of their sites. He, of course, disagrees to say the least. ;)
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Of course he would, it's a black and white world to him.
 
johnny_rebson said:
No we haven't.

We left Vietnam and the commies took over.
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And we have been trading partners with Communist Vietnam for decades. What's your point? Millions of lives were wasted for nothing!


Who will take over Iraq after we leave?
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The Iraqis.


Who will take over Afghanistan if we leave?
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The Afghans.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
So the leader of ivaw, is not only not an Iraq war veteran, but a dishonorable puke who couldn't cut it in the freaking coast guard.....

And I bet you were one of folks who went after Bush's service too weren't you.


Btw how big is ivaw and what percentage are actual combat Iraq war veterans?
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Did you forget about proving your claim again that "the IVAW group, or at least the big one is a soros schill group"???

Focus Rev, focus.
 
Catawba said:
Did you forget about proving your claim again that "the IVAW group, or at least the big one is a soros schill group"???

Focus Rev, focus.
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You are hyperfocusing.on the minute, hippy. ;)


Ivaw is led by a non veteran awol punk.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You are hyperfocusing.on the minute, hippy. ;)


Ivaw is led by a non veteran awol punk.
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That doesn't prove your claim that the IVAW is a Soros shill group, and it doesn't negate the fact that a majority of post 9/11 Veterans think the war in Iraq wasn't worth it.

Your denigration of veterans who served their country is sad.

"Scott Olsen, the 24-year-old two-tour Iraq veteran whose skull was fractured by a rubber bullet or tear gas cannister fired by police during an Occupy Oakland protest, has become a symbol for the Oakland, Calif., protests and put a spotlight on veterans' solidarity with the Occupy movement.

"He joined the military to fight for people's rights, and that's not what he found himself doing in Iraq. And so he came home and started fighting for people's rights here and for his brothers and sisters who were still deployed," said Iraq veteran Aaron Hughes, the central and team leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War."

Here's what Matt Howard (IVAW member), who was a Marine from 2001 to 2006 and served two tours in Iraq, had to say about those that profit from war:

"The 1 percent have profited during times of war," Hughes said. "If you're profiting during a time of war, what does that make you? Everyone else is losing, everyone else is struggling financially, service members and vets are just one part of that struggle for survival while the one percent is profiting. We call those war profiteers and I don't know when in our country that's been OK."

U.S. Vets, Suffering From Unemployment and Homelessness, Support Occupy Protests - ABC News
 
Catawba said:
That doesn't prove your claim that the IVAW is a Soros shill group, and it doesn't negate the fact that a majority of post 9/11 Veterans think the war in Iraq wasn't worth it.

Your denigration of veterans who served their country is sad.

"Scott Olsen, the 24-year-old two-tour Iraq veteran whose skull was fractured by a rubber bullet or tear gas cannister fired by police during an Occupy Oakland protest, has become a symbol for the Oakland, Calif., protests and put a spotlight on veterans' solidarity with the Occupy movement.

"He joined the military to fight for people's rights, and that's not what he found himself doing in Iraq. And so he came home and started fighting for people's rights here and for his brothers and sisters who were still deployed," said Iraq veteran Aaron Hughes, the central and team leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War."

Here's what Matt Howard (IVAW member), who was a Marine from 2001 to 2006 and served two tours in Iraq, had to say about those that profit from war:

"The 1 percent have profited during times of war," Hughes said. "If you're profiting during a time of war, what does that make you? Everyone else is losing, everyone else is struggling financially, service members and vets are just one part of that struggle for survival while the one percent is profiting. We call those war profiteers and I don't know when in our country that's been OK."

U.S. Vets, Suffering From Unemployment and Homelessness, Support Occupy Protests - ABC News
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Scot Olsen? "I hate the marine corps" Scott Olsen?


thisainthell.us/blog/?p=27225


So you got a disgraced coastie who went awol and a bitter remf, add that to you, the unwilling, and you want to speak for us?


Laughable...



And Matt Howard? The du conspiracy nut who claims the surge failed?


Seriously, who do you think you speak for, mortal?
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Scot Olsen? "I hate the marine corps" Scott Olsen?


thisainthell.us/blog/?p=27225


So you got a disgraced coastie who went awol and a bitter remf, add that to you, the unwilling, and you want to speak for us?


Laughable...



And Matt Howard? The du conspiracy nut who claims the surge failed?


Seriously, who do you think you speak for, mortal?
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I agree with the majority of veterans who think the Iraq war wasn't worth it.

Thanks for making it clear that you do not feel veterans should have freedom of speech if they do not agree with you.
 
Catawba said:
I agree with the majority of veterans who think the Iraq war wasn't worth it.

Thanks for making it clear that you do not feel veterans should have freedom of speech if they do not agree with you.
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catawba-----you dont speak for the military,you dont know what the military wants,im pretty sure you just interperate in your own head what you think they want.most soldiers go to afghanistan and beg to go back there,if nothing else just because they had no responsibility there.

i would definately go back.infact wwhy we send units is stupid we have enough people who would volunteer to meet demands,but instead the army rejects them and sends people that dont want to go.

no one needs a liberal attack dog saying what the soldiers want or need,let the soldiers speak for what they believe.
 
There will always be John Kerrys, and Catawba to cheer them on.
 
beerftw said:
catawba-----you dont speak for the military,you dont know what the military wants,im pretty sure you just interperate in your own head what you think they want.most soldiers go to afghanistan and beg to go back there,if nothing else just because they had no responsibility there.

i would definately go back.infact wwhy we send units is stupid we have enough people who would volunteer to meet demands,but instead the army rejects them and sends people that dont want to go.

no one needs a liberal attack dog saying what the soldiers want or need,let the soldiers speak for what they believe.
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"In a new Pew Research Center report on war and sacrifice, half of post-9/11 veterans said the Afghanistan war has been worth fighting. Only 44% felt that way about Iraq, and one-third said both wars were worth the costs."

Survey: Veterans say Afghanistan, Iraq wars not worth it - CNN.com
 
Catawba said:
"In a new Pew Research Center report on war and sacrifice, half of post-9/11 veterans said the Afghanistan war has been worth fighting. Only 44% felt that way about Iraq, and one-third said both wars were worth the costs."

Survey: Veterans say Afghanistan, Iraq wars not worth it - CNN.com
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so half agree with afghanistan so we can move the hlaf that wants to be there over there and move the half that dont back stateside.


in the mean time ive been over there and seen crap and dealt with crap you would have nightmares for the rest of your life,and ive had it super easy compared to most.

so dont give no lectures on any fricken polls cuz i dont care,there was never a single poll asked of any soldier while i was there,infact answering polls was a violation of opsec,so more than likely they got it from one time deployers not current ones.
 
beerftw said:
so half agree with afghanistan so we can move the hlaf that wants to be there over there and move the half that dont back stateside.


in the mean time ive been over there and seen crap and dealt with crap you would have nightmares for the rest of your life,and ive had it super easy compared to most.

so dont give no lectures on any fricken polls cuz i dont care,there was never a single poll asked of any soldier while i was there,infact answering polls was a violation of opsec,so more than likely they got it from one time deployers not current ones.
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My son has served four tours of duty in the Persian Gulf, and I put more stock in what he says than some anonymous internet guy.

And the Pew Poll is of Post 9/11 Veterans, the majority of which concur the Iraq war was not worth it, and only half that think Afghanistan was worth it. There no rules against freedom of speech by Veterans, as much as some seem not to want them to have that freedom.
 
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Catawba said:
My son has served four tours of duty in the Persian Gulf, and I put more stock in what he says than some anonymous internet guy.

And the Pew Poll is of Post 9/11 Veterans, the majority of which concur the Iraq war was not worth it, and only half that think it was worth it. There no rules against freedom of speech by Veterans, as much as some seem not to want them to have that freedom.
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until the last 3 years almost all post 9/11 vets were in afghanistan,infact until a few years ago almost all members in afghanistan were marines.i didnt seve in no coast i served boots on ground in afghanistan building a fob with help from air force construction and navy cb's,but the first few months wasm just my unit,in moon dust putting crap up we didnt have.

infact we only had one structure we built with scrap wood that lasted if youd like to see the picture.
 
beerftw said:
until the last 3 years almost all post 9/11 vets were in afghanistan,infact until a few years ago almost all members in afghanistan were marines.i didnt seve in no coast i served boots on ground in afghanistan building a fob with help from air force construction and navy cb's,but the first few months wasm just my unit,in moon dust putting crap up we didnt have.

infact we only had one structure we built with scrap wood that lasted if youd like to see the picture.
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None of this refutes the finding in the Pew Poll.
 
Catawba said:
None of this refutes the finding in the Pew Poll.
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the poll is biased soldiers in afghanistan cant participate and post 9/11 veterans were mostly iraw vets,so you took a poll that barely counts people who actually served there,so therefore it is flawed.
 
beerftw said:
the poll is biased soldiers in afghanistan cant participate and post 9/11 veterans were mostly iraw vets,so you took a poll that barely counts people who actually served there,so therefore it is flawed.
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Congratulations, you've finally proven something, that your thinking is flawed.
 
Catawba said:
Congratulations, you've finally proven something, that your thinking is flawed.
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please explin,your arguing soldiers are now wrong on what soldiers think unless it backs your theories???????????
 
beerftw said:
please explin,your arguing soldiers are now wrong on what soldiers think unless it backs your theories???????????
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I have provided a survey of post 9/11 Veterans by one of the most respected polling organizations in the country, and you have provided nothing but half baked opinions to refute it. :2wave:
 
Its most likely time to go when the vast majority of people dont want you there and the puppet gov you have in place doesnt even want you there...
 
Catawba said:
I agree with the majority of veterans who think the Iraq war wasn't worth it.

Thanks for making it clear that you do not feel veterans should have freedom of speech if they do not agree with you.
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Wow, nice hysterics, if you were an honest sort, you would of thought twice before posting this drivel, as I've mentioned on more than one occassion of knowing veterans who feel the war wasn't worth it..

What an asinine emotional outburst of a post. :lol:
 
Catawba said:
My son has served four tours of duty in the Persian Gulf, and I put more stock in what he says than some anonymous internet guy.
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In Iraq or Afghanistan? On this war, now? How ambiguous....

And the Pew Poll is of Post 9/11 Veterans, the majority of which concur the Iraq war was not worth it, and only half that think Afghanistan was worth it. There no rules against freedom of speech by Veterans, as much as some seem not to want them to have that freedom.
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Cry much? Just because we don't find absolute merit in a single poll does not mean we want to stifle veterans free speach. Again, you don't speak for veterans like us.
 
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