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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Pure speculation on your part. How does a person who's all about "personal liberty" become an apologist for slavery? Slavery is the exact opposite of personal liberty.
    The countries that solved it in the way I was saying it should have been done here had a bigger problem with slavery than we ever had and the rights of the black population came about faster in those areas than they did here. There is no reason to expect that it wouldn't have been even faster here than there if we did the same thing they did.

    How is saying that war was the worst way possible to about solving hardships in the black population defending slavery?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    He consistently maintained a belief in ending slavery.
    Belief without action is hypocrisy. Kudos for standing up for him.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Pure speculation on your part. How does a person who's all about "personal liberty" become an apologist for slavery? Slavery is the exact opposite of personal liberty.
    A most excellent observation. Over the last dozen years or so on websites just like this one it is almost always the people who bang the drum of libertarianism the loudest proclaiming LIBERTY and FREEDOM who are the biggest apologists and defenders of the South and its way of life.
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Progress was being made and all you must do is look at the trends of slave owners. I don't deny that slavery is a violation of rights, but I would rather people get there rights protected as soon as possible with the least amount of deaths in the process.



    Show me where that worked anywhere in the world and at a faster pace than what I'm actually saying should of been done towards it and what was more successful than how we actually did it.
    This is the most bald faced kind of apologism. "Slavery wasn't good, but it wasn't worth fighting a war over." Is what your argument really boils down to. It is why most people find it a disgusting argument. As to your second point, you want me to show you where armed strength and legal authority prevented the re-occurrence of rights violations? Those examples are innumerable in the 20th Century alone, surely that isn't what you are asking.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A most excellent observation. Over the last dozen years or so on websites just like this one it is almost always the people who bang the drum of libertarianism the loudest proclaiming LIBERTY and FREEDOM who are the biggest apologists and defenders of the South and its way of life.
    And for bringing back white only business.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    That is easy to explain because it didn't happen.

    Hordes of Northern soldiers did not inflict countless massacres and rapine across the South, this is part and parcel with the Southern 'Lost Cause' mythology. Property destruction and confiscation certainly occurred on a wide scale in certain theaters, but it was common on both sides for different reasons. Southern raiders burned and destroyed scores if not hundreds of towns throughout Kentucky, Ohio, Missouri, etc in an effort to gather supplies and tie down Union garrisons. In Sherman's 'March to the Sea' the campaign of destruction was an effort to break the back of Southern resistance and to increase the mobility of the Union column by severing its need for supply or communications.
    Oh please, they came in from one side and came out the other with everything behind them dead/raped and burned to the ground. Stop lying. Did the other side do it to some degree? Yes, without doubt, and I'm not defending that here. Hell, I'm not even defending the south anywhere in this thread.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A most excellent observation. Over the last dozen years or so on websites just like this one it is almost always the people who bang the drum of libertarianism the loudest proclaiming LIBERTY and FREEDOM who are the biggest apologists and defenders of the South and its way of life.
    Because they have a fetishistic admiration for ante-bellum notions of states rights, and have managed to graft their current complaints against the Federal government onto the person of Abraham Lincoln and the US government of 1861.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Because they have a fetishistic admiration for ante-bellum notions of states rights, and have managed to graft their current complaints against the Federal government onto the person of Abraham Lincoln and the US government of 1861.
    Or because their racist.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    And for bringing back white only business.


    Ownership is the exclusive right to use and control a particular thing. Denying people from the use of your property is part of property rights. It's the same for your home, your business, or your body and hell even your labor.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oh please, they came in from one side and came out the other with everything behind them dead/raped and burned to the ground. Stop lying. Did the other side do it to some degree? Yes, without doubt, and I'm not defending that here. Hell, I'm not even defending the south anywhere in this thread.
    That isn't true at all, lol. The Civil War was actually marked by very very few civilian casualties which has been rather intriguing to historians. It is why massacres like Fort Pillow have garnered so much attention, because they were so rare. The exception to all of this is of course Missouri where an internecine partisan communal war claimed several hundred to several thousand lives on both sides. But no, rampant slaughter and rape did not occur.

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