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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Webb View Post
    This is probably a bad idea for a poll. I just want to apologize right now for starting this poll. I'm already embarrassed...

    Here's one opinion:

    Top 10 Most Influential Presidents
    By Martin Kelly, About.com Guide

    "Of the 43 men who have been president of the United States, there are some truly clear choices of who were the most important and influential presidents.

    1. Abraham Lincoln
    Abraham Lincoln saved the Union during the American Civil War. His leadership during the war was one of no compromise but at the same time understanding that he would eventually have to unite the states once the North won the war. His actions eventually led to the abolition of slavery across the United States."


    Ranking the Top Ten Most Influential Presidents

    ***
    Here's another source:

    Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States

    "George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin D. Roosevelt are consistently ranked at the top of the lists."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._United_States

    ***
    And another:

    Lincoln wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey

    "It's been 145 years since Abraham Lincoln appeared on a ballot, but admiration for the man who saved the union and sparked the end of slavery is as strong as ever, according to a new survey.

    Lincoln finished first in a ranking by historians of the 42 former White House occupants."


    Lincoln wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey - CNN

    ***
    Does everyone agree?

    How long was Killing Lincoln by Bill O'Reilly the New York Times best-seller? It's still in the no. 2 position right now.

    I can't find anyone that's critical of Honest Abe. I guess this is a non-subject to everyone. I apologize again, I'm sorry.
    I think it's unfair to Lincoln to criticize his wrongdoings in a vacuum.

    I think it is also necessary to look at the wrongdoings of the Southern states in perpetuating the enslavement of other human beings, especially when so many other nations at that time had abolished slavery, or were taking steps to abolish slavery.

    So I think the wrongdoings of Lincoln don't come anywhere close to the wrongdoings of the Southern institution of slavery.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    A few thousand white men in the South decided for the millions that they ruled over with an iron fist, and stole their labor, that stealing their labor was worth them dying for. Well duh. The southern tyrants and slave masters didn't want to lose their servants. They have no legal or moral authority. Lincoln was and is hero of the United States, and one of our greatest Presidents.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    A few thousand white men in the South decided for the millions that they ruled over with an iron fist, and stole their labor, that stealing their labor was worth them dying for. Well duh. The southern tyrants and slave masters didn't want to lose their servants. They have no legal or moral authority. Lincoln was and is hero of the United States, and one of our greatest Presidents.
    Tell that to all the people killed and raped as the north sweep through the south killing, raping and burning everything in their path. The best path forward to solve slavery was never war and death, but social evolution and eventually law. This is proven by looking at how other countries solved the problem and how long the hardships of the black population was after it was ended. In America it took another 100 years for things to start working out, but in other parts of the world that was not necessary.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Tell that to all the people killed and raped as the north sweep through the south killing, raping and burning everything in their path. The best path forward to solve slavery was never war and death, but social evolution and eventually law. This is proven by looking at how other countries solved the problem and how long the hardships of the black population was after it was ended. In America it took another 100 years for things to start working out, but in other parts of the world that was not necessary.
    If the south hadn't doubled down on the institution that would have been possible, but a few thousand white guys tried to set themselves up as a new feudal lordships. That could not stand.

  5. #35
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Webb View Post
    This is probably a bad idea for a poll. I just want to apologize right now for starting this poll. I'm already embarrassed...

    Here's one opinion:

    Top 10 Most Influential Presidents
    By Martin Kelly, About.com Guide

    "Of the 43 men who have been president of the United States, there are some truly clear choices of who were the most important and influential presidents.

    1. Abraham Lincoln
    Abraham Lincoln saved the Union during the American Civil War. His leadership during the war was one of no compromise but at the same time understanding that he would eventually have to unite the states once the North won the war. His actions eventually led to the abolition of slavery across the United States."


    Ranking the Top Ten Most Influential Presidents

    ***
    Here's another source:

    Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States

    "George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin D. Roosevelt are consistently ranked at the top of the lists."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._United_States

    ***
    And another:

    Lincoln wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey

    "It's been 145 years since Abraham Lincoln appeared on a ballot, but admiration for the man who saved the union and sparked the end of slavery is as strong as ever, according to a new survey.

    Lincoln finished first in a ranking by historians of the 42 former White House occupants."


    Lincoln wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey - CNN

    ***
    Does everyone agree?

    How long was Killing Lincoln by Bill O'Reilly the New York Times best-seller? It's still in the no. 2 position right now.

    I can't find anyone that's critical of Honest Abe. I guess this is a non-subject to everyone. I apologize again, I'm sorry.
    Great thread dude. No sarcasm. I'm actually just enjoying the read more than anything else.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    If the south hadn't doubled down on the institution that would have been possible, but a few thousand white guys tried to set themselves up as a new feudal lordships. That could not stand.
    That would have never happened if the north wasn't pushing legal force down their throats. Look, slavery was dieing and instead of getting aggressive, the north should of just helped the process go quicker.

    Btw, not all the states had such conditions.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That would have never happened if the north wasn't pushing legal force down their throats. Look, slavery was dieing and instead of getting aggressive, the north should of just helped the process go quicker.
    They did help it go quicker. Slavery ended far sooner because of the war than it otherwise would have. The south didn't want to follow U.S. law and tried to leave. They learned the hard way nope can't do that.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    They did help it go quicker. Slavery ended far sooner because of the war than it otherwise would have. The south didn't want to follow U.S. law and tried to leave. They learned the hard way nope can't do that.
    i mean by social pressure. In any event, remember what I already said, the next 100 years of black hardship would have never happened if the war did not occur. Slavery would have ended and you would have found that people would have been far more willing to give blacks equal rights across the board in a much faster time frame. Yes, the first step would have been slightly longer, but the following steps would have been much, much shorter. The fact is history shows that war to solve slavery is the least efficient way towards the end goal of equal rights.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    i mean by social pressure. In any event, remember what I already said, the next 100 years of black hardship would have never happened if the war did not occur. Slavery would have ended and you would have found that people would have been far more willing to give blacks equal rights across the board in a much faster time frame. Yes, the first step would have been slightly longer, but the following steps would have been much, much shorter. The fact is history shows that war to solve slavery is the least efficient way towards the end goal of equal rights.
    Oh racism didn't come about because of the civil war. The hardships would be there regardless. Freedom is earned by blood. That's just how it goes.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Oh racism didn't come about because of the civil war. The hardships would be there regardless. Freedom is earned by blood. That's just how it goes.
    That is not how it was for other parts of the world, so no, freedom doesn't have to come from blood.

    In any event, I wasn't saying that racism came from war, but war towards ending slavery history shows make it last longer at higher levels than it otherwise would have. The fact is, that when you make people do something by force they will usually resist and lock down on their position and war causes it worse than anything else.

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