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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

  1. #331
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    We can and have. Private property only exists at all because we collectively allow it.
    Property has nothing to do with society and if society refused to protect it war would be the only choice. Sorry, but if a government refuses to recognize my property then my only choice is to fight them.

    Btw, I said in a "free" society you could not. I never said we didn't in this one here. Do you know what that means? I didn't just use the word "free" for no reason.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-13-13 at 01:25 PM.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Property has nothing to do with society and if society refused to protect it war would be the only choice. Sorry, but if a government refuses to recognize my property then my only choice is to fight them.

    Btw, I said in a "free" society you could not. I never said we didn't in this one here. Do you know what that means? I didn't just use the word "free" for no reason.
    Society decides property rights. If government doesn't recognise you own property than you don't own it.
    In stone age days property belonged only to those that could defend it.

    Now we give title to facilitate economy. That is the point of title. Just so we no longer fight. We still do,but not nearly as much.

    Society decides what the nature of property rights are. The nature of ownership fundamentally still boils down to violence.

    You can't open a white only business because we say so. We back that up with fines and or jail.

  3. #333
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Society decides property rights.
    No, it protects property rights.

    If government doesn't recognise you own property than you don't own it.
    Wrong. I would have trouble defending it against the aggression of others, but I would still own it if the government isn't protecting it.

    In stone age days property belonged only to those that could defend it.
    No, it belonged to the legitimate owner, but protecting the property was up to the individual to handle alone.

    Now we give title to facilitate economy. That is the point of title. Just so we no longer fight. We still do,but not nearly as much.
    The title doesn't decide property rights, but makes claims easier to keep track of and property easier to protect.

    Society decides what the nature of property rights are. The nature of ownership fundamentally still boils down to violence.
    No, it either follows the nature of property rights or it doesn't. It's that simple. I have no idea how you think the act of ownership is violent, but no, its not. Not allowing others to use your property is not a violent act. If that is what you think then I guess every person on the planet is violent everyday because they don't want to be raped or did you forget we have ownership of our bodies? If not allowing people on your property is a violent act(it's not) than saying no to someone that wants to have sex with you is a violent act. Again, the act of ownership is not a violent act. Violating property rights however very much is.

    You can't open a white only business because we say so. We back that up with fines and or jail.
    Again, you end with what the law says. Is there really any point in talking to you?
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-13-13 at 02:24 PM.

  4. #334
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, it protects property rights.



    Wrong. I would have trouble defending it against the aggression of others, but would own it. if the government isn't protecting



    No, it belonged to the legitment owner, but protecting the property was up to the individual to handle alone.



    The title doesn't decide property rights, but makes claims easier to keep track of and property easier to protect.



    No, it either follows the nature of property rights or it doesn't. It's that simple. I have no idea how you think the act of ownership is violent, but no, its not. Not allowing others to use your property is not a violent act. If that is what you think then I guess every person on the planet is violent everyday because they don't want to be raped or did you forget we have ownership of our bodies? If not allowing people on your property is a violent act(it's not) than saying no to someone that wants to have sex with you is a violent. Again, the act of ownership is not violent. Violating property rights however very much is.



    Again, end with what the law says. Is there really any point in talking to you?
    Who decided the first owner of property?

    Violence decided. Then one day we formed government.

  5. #335
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Who decided the first owner of property?
    The owner.

    Violence decided. Then one day we formed government.
    No, the first owner did not take it from anyone, so no violence was involved. The day we formed government to protect property was the day we became enlightened.

  6. #336
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, it protects property rights.



    Wrong. I would have trouble defending it against the aggression of others, but I would still own it if the government isn't protecting it.



    No, it belonged to the legitimate owner, but protecting the property was up to the individual to handle alone.



    The title doesn't decide property rights, but makes claims easier to keep track of and property easier to protect.



    No, it either follows the nature of property rights or it doesn't. It's that simple. I have no idea how you think the act of ownership is violent, but no, its not. Not allowing others to use your property is not a violent act. If that is what you think then I guess every person on the planet is violent everyday because they don't want to be raped or did you forget we have ownership of our bodies? If not allowing people on your property is a violent act(it's not) than saying no to someone that wants to have sex with you is a violent act. Again, the act of ownership is not a violent act. Violating property rights however very much is.



    Again, you end with what the law says. Is there really any point in talking to you?
    It sounds like you are arguing that the government's legitimate function is to protect property. I can find nothing with which to argue there.

  7. #337
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    312 million other people can not tell someone in a free society they are not allowed to practice their rights because they happen to need to use their property. The very fact that it happened in this country is a problem and should be treated as one no matter what the reasons of property owner are. No one has a right to use other peoples property, and no, I did not make that up. It has been general rule of property since the beginning of time. Collectively owned and private property are governed by this same rule.
    They can and do and have been for a very long time now.

    Where do I find these rules of property you refer to? Could you link to them or publish them here please?
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The owner.



    No, the first owner did not take it from anyone, so no violence was involved. The day we formed government to protect property was the day we became enlightened.
    The owner? No someone somewhere just said this is mine and then uses violence to keep other people away.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    The owner? No someone somewhere just said this is mine and then uses violence to keep other people away.
    The first thing owned was not land or other possessions, but the persons body. Regardless, defending yourself or your property from the aggression of others is necessary to protect your rights from the violations of others.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    It sounds like you are arguing that the government's legitimate function is to protect property. I can find nothing with which to argue there.
    Exactly.

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