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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

  1. #321
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Being able to run a racist business is not fundamental to freedom. That is silly.
    Is that an argument? As I said, the reason for them not allowing people in is not important as they have the right to say no to whoever they please. The only way you can prove otherwise is to show a right violation by them doing so, and since that is impossible, all you have is "they're racist". That is meaningless to the right, sorry.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Is that an argument? As I said, the reason for them not allowing people is not important as they have the right to say no to whoever they please. The only way you can prove otherwise is show a right violation by them doing so, and since that is impossible, all you have is "they are racist". That is meaningless to the right, sorry.
    What, why, how is all fundamental. One can't use your home to sell crack.

    One can't bury uranium wast in your back yard. One can't open a business that discriminates. That is the law and those laws are good.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    What, why, how is all fundamental. One can't use your home to sell crack.

    One can't bury uranium wast in your back yard. One can't open a business that discriminates. That is the law and those laws are good.
    Oh look, a list of random examples to make a point I already admitted with my building a dam and it floods your neighbors yard example pages ago. The only one there worth talking about is the nuclear waste example as the former is just two people taking part in a transaction and the customer getting exactly what they want.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-13-13 at 01:56 AM.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oh look, a list of random examples to make a point I already admitted with my building a dam and it floods your neighbors yard example pages ago. The only one there worth talking about is the nuclear waste example as the former is just two people taking part in a transaction and the customer getting exactly what they want.
    They are against the law that is what they have in common. Going back to allowing businesses to wantonly discriminate will be bad for society. It will lead to violence just like it did then.

    If the owner of the towns only drug store doesn't fill the Muslim kids antibiotic prescription and he dies that is very bad for all of us. Same if the only gas station refuses to sell to an Asian woman.

    If we were to allow such behavior then chaos will result. I would personally torch a white only diner. It is just something that should no longer exist.

  5. #325
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    They are against the law that is what they have in common. Going back to allowing businesses to wantonly discriminate will be bad for society. It will lead to violence just like it did then.
    Which would be against the law. No problem at all.

    If the owner of the towns only drug store doesn't fill the Muslim kids antibiotic prescription and he dies that is very bad for all of us. Same if the only gas station refuses to sell to an Asian woman.
    And your point? Where is the right violation in there? Being bad for one person, a group or the entire country =/= a right violation. Saying no is not inflicting violence or violating the rights of anyone even if they die without access.

    If we were to allow such behavior then chaos will result. I would personally torch a white only diner. It is just something that should no longer exist.
    Then you would be arrested. One of the jobs of the government is respect the wishes of property owners and to protect their property against people that would burn it to the ground.

  6. #326
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    There is no rights to balance, so that doesn't fly, sorry. They have no right of access towards the property in question and the other individual has the right to control access. Do you think that when we consider rights we should decide which rights to violate and which to not? If you do, then sorry, but that is the wrong approach to take in a free society.



    My view is supported by reality itself, so I have little idea what you are talking about. Do you think law is all there is to consider?
    Some method of argument you have there.

    You make it up as you go along.

    You never have to cite where you get this nonsense from.

    You pontificate and invent rules which suit you.

    You are not debating. You are playing God in your own little fantasy world where none of the other 312 million Americans have to live. That would be fine with me as long as you did not do it here so as to try and screw things up for the rest of us who are indeed grounded in reality.
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    And where in the Constitution does it say that?
    It say it right here: "The Constitution of the United States"

    The constitution specifies the rules of the compact between the states united under that compact. Are you suggesting that the constitution applies to Canada, England, and Australia?

  8. #328
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Well, your starting point is a common tactic....Let's start off by demonizing people for their supporting the South's right to succession by relating them to "slavery apologists". I have said many, many times, this is childish. No one is supporting slavery, no one is supporting the South's argument for slavery. You've attempted to infer this upon me, and I'd ask you don't do it again. I merely argue for the right of succession.
    Sorry, but according to the Vice President of the Confederacy, slavery was the very basis of what they were doing. If you support the South, you are supporting their ability to own people as property. By buying into their whole "We just wanted to leave in peace" load of crap, you are apologizing for that.

    Now what people always fail to address about Ft Sumter is that the CSA didn't just up and open a can of whoopass on them. They gave them more than a reasonable chance to leave. It was Lincoln who kept them there in order to provoke confrontation and give pretext for War.
    First of all, there was no CSA. It was a very loose association of "free states." If there was a CSA, they might have won, but Davis couldn't get the states to raise troops and money for the other states. What you fail to address about Ft. Sumter is what right South Carolina had to it after they had already ceded it to the United States.

    I never said that peaceful seperation was possible I said that it SHOULD have been. Meaning it is what "ought" to have happen. The Tyrant would have never allowed this, but he SHOULD have.
    It could not have been possible. Would the South come back peacefully if asked? No. But you ask the opposite question and then declare Lincoln a "tyrant" because he had the guts to fight a war that needed to be fought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Some method of argument you have there.

    You make it up as you go along.

    You never have to cite where you get this nonsense from.

    You pontificate and invent rules which suit you.

    You are not debating. You are playing God in your own little fantasy world where none of the other 312 million Americans have to live. That would be fine with me as long as you did not do it here so as to try and screw things up for the rest of us who are indeed grounded in reality.

    312 million other people can not tell someone in a free society they are not allowed to practice their rights because they happen to need to use their property. The very fact that it happened in this country is a problem and should be treated as one no matter what the reasons of property owner are. No one has a right to use other peoples property, and no, I did not make that up. It has been general rule of property since the beginning of time. Collectively owned and private property are governed by this same rule.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-13-13 at 12:57 PM.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    312 million other people can not tell someone in a free society they are not allowed to practice their rights because they happen to need to use their property. The very fact that it happened in this country is a problem and should be treated as one no matter what the reasons of property owner are. No one has a right to use other peoples property, and no, I did not make that up. It has been general rule of property since the beginning of time. Collectively owned and private property are governed by this same rule.
    We can and have. Private property only exists at all because we collectively allow it.

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