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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Then you're refusing to respect the rights of people to control access to their property due to fear of discrimination.



    I talk of many issues dealing with such things. This issue here I just enjoy talking about and find it interesting how no one can seem to muster up a good argument to support the law.
    Correct I don't respect the right of a business to discriminate. We live in a modern society. Any business uses resources paid for by everyone. These include roads, electrical grid, fire protection, police and many more.

    The right to private property is not absolute. This is doubly true if a business.

    Therefore a small town with one grocery store may not refuse to sell food to the black people or Eskimos or elderly etc.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Correct I don't respect the right of a business to discriminate. We live in a modern society. Any business uses resources paid for by everyone. These include roads, electrical grid, fire protection, police and many more.
    Everyone uses such things. Does that mean the state gets to take away their rights too?

    The right to private property is not absolute. This is doubly true if a business.
    Was that an argument or just an attempt at one? Did you somehow miss my dam example?

    Therefore a small town with one grocery store may not refuse to sell food to the black people or Eskimos or elderly etc.
    Yeah, I got it, thanks. Your argument is complete gibberish though. Just because people are using resources paid for by everyone does not mean the state can restrict their rights. Btw, haymarket already tried the "roads" crap some pages ago and it failed horribly.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The constitution only applies to the states that are currently members of the compact it establishes. A state that quits the union is no longer a party to the compact.
    And where in the Constitution does it say that?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Everyone uses such things. Does that mean the state gets to take away their rights too?



    Was that an argument or just an attempt at one? Did you somehow miss my dam example?



    Yeah, I got it, thanks. Your argument is complete gibberish though. Just because people are using resources paid for by everyone does not mean the state can restrict their rights. Btw, haymarket already tried the "roads" crap some pages ago and it failed horribly.
    You fail to understand the state through the power of we the people have curbed the right of a business to discriminate.

    You may not like that. You may want to go back to those good old days but they shall never return. Private property has never been absolute.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    And where in the Constitution does it say that?
    She same place that it says Canada isn't covered by the constitution.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    You fail to understand the state through the power of we the people have curbed the right of a business to discriminate.
    I fail to understand the government passed a law? Interesting, because I thought that was what we were talking about the entire time. Perhaps the problem is that you can't get past your own lack of an argument so you keep going over the same thing over and over again? Btw, I see you abandoned your "they are using a government service so the government can violate their rights argument" Good to see, as it applied to you too.

    You may not like that. You may want to go back to those good old days but they shall never return. Private property has never been absolute.
    Private property includes the right to control access for whatever reason the owner sees fit. By doing so the owner does not violate the rights of other people and so the state has no justification to use its domain of force towards it for such actions. If you read the thread you would have noticed I mentioned an example where the actions of a property owner violates the rights of someone else, but this is not one of those cases.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    And where in the Constitution does it say that?
    I think it's right after the part where it says they can't secede.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I fail to understand the government passed a law? Interesting, because I thought that was what we were talking about the entire time. Perhaps the problem is that you can't get past your own lack of an argument so you keep going over the same thing over and over again? Btw, I see you abandoned your "they are using a government service so the government can violate their rights argument" Good to see, as it applied to you too.



    Private property includes the right to control access for whatever reason the owner sees fit. By doing so the owner does not violate the rights of other people and so the state has no justification to use its domain of force towards it for such actions. If you read the thread you would have noticed I mentioned an example where the actions of a property owner violates the rights of someone else, but this is not one of those cases.
    I keep repeating because you keep.repeating. You keep saying government can't. Well it can and has. No one cares you can't open your white only business except you and a small % of others.

    Property rights are not absolute. Just ask the Native Americans, slaves and any number of others who have had their property actually infringed. Not being able to open a racist business is not actually having your property rights infringed.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    I keep repeating because you keep.repeating. You keep saying government can't. Well it can and has. No one cares you can't open your white only business except you and a small % of others.

    Property rights are not absolute. Just ask the Native Americans, slaves and any number of others who have had their property actually infringed. Not being able to open a racist business is not actually having your property rights infringed.
    I keep repeating myself because you aren't getting that its the root of property itself. Being able to control access to your property be it your person, your land, your home, your business, your bed, whatever, is what property is entirely rooted in. Your argument must ignore this so you can claim people being denied access to others property is somehow a wrong. That is just impossible, sorry. Because of this fact, yes, this is a right infringement by the government and you can deny it all day and run to law as your argument, but that fact will continue to hold true. Saying no to however the business owner wants is their right as it is your right with your home, your land, and your body. The property being a business does not change a thing.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I keep repeating myself because you aren't getting that its the root of property itself. Being able to control access to your property be it your person, your land, your home, your business, your bed, whatever, is what property is entirely rooted in. Your argument must ignore this so you can claim people being denied access to others property is somehow a wrong. That is just impossible, sorry. Because of this fact, yes, this is a right infringement by the government and you can deny it all day and run to law as your argument, but that fact will continue to hold true.
    Being able to run a racist business is not fundamental to freedom. That is silly.

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