Page 29 of 37 FirstFirst ... 192728293031 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 290 of 364

Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

  1. #281
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,074

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I already dealt with this argument of yours. No Business is not open to the public, but to who the owner wants in. Putting word out about your business does not mean that there is no rules of access and that anyone can access the property. You could have easily read the thread to find this answer to your argument.
    Please provide verifiable evidence that your claim is indeed the legal policy in our nation. I have already provided you the laws saying it clearly is NOT.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #282
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Please provide verifiable evidence that your claim is indeed the legal policy in our nation. I have already provided you the laws saying it clearly is NOT.
    Are we in a wheel here? You already made that argument.

  3. #283
    Professor
    zstep18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Somewhere
    Last Seen
    02-24-14 @ 02:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,770

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    For there to be a "more perfect union" you must be uniting something, what was that something? seperate and sovereign States.
    Before there was a "more perfect Union", there was the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.

    Do you know what 'perpetual' means?

  4. #284
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,074

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Are we in a wheel here? You already made that argument.
    This is a perfect illustration that you do NOT live in the real world that I do.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #285
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,144

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Before there was a "more perfect Union", there was the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.

    Do you know what 'perpetual' means?
    Do you know what "replaced" means?

    What about, "non-statutory" eh? any ideas?

    I mean, I can let your condescending tone slide, I understand your frustrations. Can't come up with the requisite information so, throw snarky gibes instead.... Rock on brother...

    However if we are going to look to posterity, to documents that hold no legal binding, than we need look no further than the Declaration of Independence.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
    What you may want to ponder before coming back with another quip, is if the Union was indissoluble, why didn't they just say it?

  6. #286
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,144

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Wouldn't have been possible. That's a myth perpetrated by the apologists of slavery.

    People ask "Why couldn't Lincoln let them go in peace?" Nobody ever asks why the South couldn't come back in peace because everybody knows that they were completely willing to fight. If it wasn't Ft. Sumter, it would have been something else. Lincoln had a vital national security interest in seeing the Union preserved - If Maryland and Delaware followed the other slave states, that would have left Washington completely surrounded by a hostile nation. As it was, the only thing separating DC from the Confederacy was the Potomac.

    Simply put, a peaceful separation was impossible.
    Well, your starting point is a common tactic....Let's start off by demonizing people for their supporting the South's right to succession by relating them to "slavery apologists". I have said many, many times, this is childish. No one is supporting slavery, no one is supporting the South's argument for slavery. You've attempted to infer this upon me, and I'd ask you don't do it again. I merely argue for the right of succession.

    Now what people always fail to address about Ft Sumter is that the CSA didn't just up and open a can of whoopass on them. They gave them more than a reasonable chance to leave. It was Lincoln who kept them there in order to provoke confrontation and give pretext for War.

    I never said that peaceful seperation was possible I said that it SHOULD have been. Meaning it is what "ought" to have happen. The Tyrant would have never allowed this, but he SHOULD have.

  7. #287
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,144

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Just because the south wanted Ft. Sumter didn't make it theirs. It was the property of the United States military, as in, they held the title.

    Should the Union have just abandoned their property rights because South Carolina asked?

    I've already argued this point, please look back a page or two for where I touched on this.

  8. #288
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This is a perfect illustration that you do NOT live in the real world that I do.
    You already ran to the law as your defense. Did you somehow forget?

  9. #289
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,074

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You already ran to the law as your defense. Did you somehow forget?
    I give you reality..... you give me fantasyland.

    What is the point of engaging with you when you retreat into your own make believe world where things only are as you wish them to be or as you believe them to be?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #290
    Whoa, daddy!
    MadLib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,225

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    while they remain members of the union.
    Where did it say that?


    Something that is perfect cannot unable to be broken up.
    Perfect implies indivisible, not divisible.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

Page 29 of 37 FirstFirst ... 192728293031 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •