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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You explained nothing. But prove me wrong - in which post was your explaination?
    I explained very clearly the way people react to property in nature and society and how the existence of government does nothing to change this. Ownership is about control and the person that owns something has full control of whatever it might be and when this is breached in nature or society the very foundation of property is violated. It's very easily explained by using any analogy I could imagine be it an apple, a house, land, a business, a toothbrush, whatever. All property functions in the same exact fashion be it collectively owned or privately owned. It's all about control and whoever owns the property has the exclusive right to control such property. When this is breached violence must be done towards this person and with it the control picture must be changed. What this means is that the control picture of the property has been altered and ownership has been assumed by an outside body be that government or a random thief in society or nature. The law in question says that the owner can not control access to his or her property which is the most fundamental element of any type of property. The law you support inflicts violence on the property owner, assumes ownership of property already owned, and violates property rights.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-12-13 at 02:03 PM.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Legally it still was.

    Okay, so legally the south was still part of the Union. If that is so, then the formation of the state of West Virginia was illegal and unconstitutional. Reference Article IV. Section 3 which states: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union: but no new State shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more states, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

    I am sure the part about congress was met, but I guarantee the legislature of Virginia didn’t consent to having part of their state torn away from them. If the SCOTUS ruled that Virginia was still part of the union, then West Virginia was formed and added to the Union illegally and unconstitutional.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I explained very clearly the way people react to property in nature and society and how the existence of government does nothing to change this. Ownership is about control and the person that owns something has full control of whatever it might be and when this is breached in nature or society the very foundation of property is violated. It's very easily explained by using any analogy I could imagine be it an apple, a house, land, a business, a toothbrush, whatever. All property functions in the same exact fashion be it collectively owned or privately owned. It's all about control and whoever owns the property has the exclusive right to control such property. When this breached violence must be done towards this person and with it the control picture must be changed. What this means is that the control picture of the property has been altered and ownership assumed by an outside body be that government or a random thief in society or nature. The law in question says that the owner can not control access to his property which is the most fundamental element of any type of property. The law you support inflicts violence on the property owner, assumes ownership, and violates property rights.
    Your error is in looking as property rights as something which is not bound by the normal balance with other rights in society. Your phrase - exclusive control - does not exist in a society with millions of other people.
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your error is in looking as property rights as something which is not bound by the normal balance with other rights in society. Your phrase - exclusive control - does not exist in a society with millions of other people.
    Violating the rights of people is not covered by property rights. However, controlling access to your property is not violating anyones rights as they have no right to use the property in question.

    As I said in a thread a few days ago, if I was to build a dam on my property and it puts my neighbors house under water that would be violating his or her property rights and would not be protected behavior. However, simply saying no to someone that wants to use my property is not violating their rights as I have the right to control access to my property.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-12-13 at 02:07 PM.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Violating the rights of people is not covered by property rights. However, controlling access to your property is not violating anyones rights as they have no right to use the property in question.

    As I said in a thread a few days ago, if I was to build a dam on my property and it puts my neighbors house under water that would be violating his or her property rights and would not be protected behavior. However, simply saying no to someone that wants to use my property is not violating their rights as I have the right to control access to my property.
    Again, you make the same fundamental mistake: you are only considering property rights and not others.
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again, you make the same fundamental mistake: you are only considering property rights and not others.
    If I want to enter your home and you say no, is that violating my rights? No, as I have no right to access your property.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If I want to enter your home and you say no, is that violating my rights? No, as I have no right to access your property.
    Why are you confusing your home with other property that was under discussion?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why are you confusing your home with other property that was under discussion?
    I'm not. Its governed by the same principle and is rooted in the same foundation. No one has a right to access any property they do not own.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm not. Its governed by the same principle and is rooted in the same foundation. No one has a right to access any property they do not own.
    Do you advertise for the general public to come to your home? Is it open to the public?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Do you advertise for the general public to come to your home? Is it open to the public?
    I already dealt with this argument of yours. No Business is not open to the public, but to who the owner wants in. Putting word out about your business does not mean that there is no rules of access and that anyone can access the property. You could have easily read the thread to find this answer to your argument.

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