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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Self determination implies nationalities being able to choose their own destiny. The states could still rule themselves, BTW. They weren't made territories so they were given all of their original rights back.

    No, the States couldn't they where under military tribunals, Reconstruction, etc, etc. The fact that the tyrant attacked and became victor over the Southern States signifies that they didn't have a right to self determination and precendence had been set for any others who'd like to follow suit, thereby denying generations to come from having that right.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Fort Sumter was federal land, not state land. Assuming that the Confederacy had a legal right to one iota of territory, they still had no claim over Ft. Sumter.

    Again, so says the Tyrant

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Do you really want an answer to that?
    Sure. Lincoln wasn't dumb.

    I didn't say it was the same I said it was a starting point towards. It doesn't matter what can be extended the CSA had control over their territory.
    I was pointing out that belligerency is not the same as actual recognition. Therefore they had no legal territorial rights on both Constitutional counts and diplomatic counts.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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  4. #234
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Again, so says the Tyrant
    Was Fort Sumter federal or state territory? If so, why did it have a federal fort smack in the middle of it?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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  5. #235
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Could have? No, No, should have...
    You're right. The Confederates should never have attacked the Union after they split off.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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  6. #236
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    For a while Ron Paul groupies were raging against Lincoln, after Ron Paul made the ludicrous statement that the federal government should have "bought" the slaves from slave-owners instead - and like zombies his groupies joined right in.

    The value of slaves at that time exceeded the entire GNP of the United States and the wealthiest people in the United States were all slave owners - who had never indicated they were willing to sell their "machinery" and go out of business.

    Thus, what Paul was claiming in the alternative is that 100% of the entire wealth of the nation - literally 1oo% of it - should have been given to the already wealthiest and most evil men in the United States - as a reward for being rich and evil - who would then - at best - turned their slaves into serf sharecroppers leasing the land of the super rich - with the country's economic destroyed.

    The cause of the Civil War was a group of fabulously wealthy Southern slaveowners deciding if they cannot 100% control the United States government, they will create their own country in which they could - and figured with their vast wealth and the ability to buy foreign munitions, along with the then massive size and remoteness of the United States they'd get away with it. They, not Lincoln, are who is responsible for the Civil War.

    As Ron Paul lamented the deaths of 2 million white people, he didn't give a damn for the tens of millions who had lived and died as slaves. And his angry white male groupies did - and still do - agree to cry only for the white people murdered and to suffer. In my opinion, racism was always the underlying core of his most devoted followers.
    Moreover we proposed this and slave holders and legislatures adamantly refused.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    The world was unconcerned with Southern rights, but they were also equally unconcerned with the slavery going on in the colonies. England fought us because they needed money and imperialistic power. France fought England because they have been fighting England directly and by proxy for centuries.

    And the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round.
    England fought us during the Civil War? This is new

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    However, public opinion against slavery created a political liability for European politicians, especially in Britain (who had herself abolished slavery in her own colonies in 1834).[196]

    ...

    The Emancipation Proclamation over time would reinforce the political liability of supporting the Confederacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    England fought us during the Civil War? This is new
    They supplied the North.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    They supplied the North.
    Great Britain is most known for its surrupteous supply of the Confederacy and its conferral of belligerent status to the South. The funneling of guns, ships, and basic goods to circumvent the blockade soured US-British relations for years afterward and were a central part of the war effort.

  10. #240
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    They supplied the North.
    You said "England fought us." Referring to the South, then. I thought you were referring to the USA.

    The Brits traded with everybody. They tried to supply the South but the North blockaded them. They even sold a few warships to the CSA. Their officials favored the South, actually, to end the United States' hegemony in the Americas, but because of the EP, Lincoln's threats, and the blockade this became unfeasible.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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