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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

  1. #221
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    For a while Ron Paul groupies were raging against Lincoln, after Ron Paul made the ludicrous statement that the federal government should have "bought" the slaves from slave-owners instead - and like zombies his groupies joined right in.

    The value of slaves at that time exceeded the entire GNP of the United States and the wealthiest people in the United States were all slave owners - who had never indicated they were willing to sell their "machinery" and go out of business.

    Thus, what Paul was claiming in the alternative is that 100% of the entire wealth of the nation - literally 1oo% of it - should have been given to the already wealthiest and most evil men in the United States - as a reward for being rich and evil - who would then - at best - turned their slaves into serf sharecroppers leasing the land of the super rich - with the country's economic destroyed.

    The cause of the Civil War was a group of fabulously wealthy Southern slaveowners deciding if they cannot 100% control the United States government, they will create their own country in which they could - and figured with their vast wealth and the ability to buy foreign munitions, along with the then massive size and remoteness of the United States they'd get away with it. They, not Lincoln, are who is responsible for the Civil War.

    As Ron Paul lamented the deaths of 2 million white people, he didn't give a damn for the tens of millions who had lived and died as slaves. And his angry white male groupies did - and still do - agree to cry only for the white people murdered and to suffer. In my opinion, racism was always the underlying core of his most devoted followers.

  2. #222
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    So said the Tyrant.
    By definition the person who attacks first is the aggressor.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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  3. #223
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I think you've taken what I said out of context, but anyhow, that was ruled in 1868, which happened afterward. Ex post facto. But my orginal objection under its original context still stands.
    It's not ex post facto since it's not a new law.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    It is a first step and an important one at that. Yeah, that's easy for you to say.
    Look at it in context. Do you really think Lincoln would be stupid enough to fight on two fronts, one on the Southern border and one in Canada?

    Belligerent status is still not the same as recognition, as it can be extended to rebel groups who control 0% of territory.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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  5. #225
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    the right to self determination. The most important.
    Self determination implies nationalities being able to choose their own destiny. The states could still rule themselves, BTW. They weren't made territories so they were given all of their original rights back.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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  6. #226
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    It's not ex post facto since it's not a new law.
    There is no law, you keep speaking of law, show me the law. This was sophistry .

  7. #227
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    The Emancipation Proclamation was empty and hollow rhetoric. Don't tell me that you can't see that.

    I guess you think Bush "liberated" Arabs too?
    False equivalency. "Liberating Arabs" is a bunch of weasel words. No meaning. The emancipation of slaves was pretty clear-cut, and authority that Lincoln had via war powers.

    And don't forget his support for the Thirteenth Amendment.

    Yeah. He never really supported abolitionism. Say that to any historian and see how many back you up on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    By definition the person who attacks first is the aggressor.
    The tyrant's troops occupied foreign land. Not leaving when told was provocation, which is agression by another name.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Look at it in context. Do you really think Lincoln would be stupid enough to fight on two fronts, one on the Southern border and one in Canada?

    Belligerent status is still not the same as recognition, as it can be extended to rebel groups who control 0% of territory.
    Do you really want an answer to that?

    I didn't say it was the same I said it was a starting point towards. It doesn't matter what can be extended the CSA had control over their territory.

  10. #230
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    The tyrant's troops occupied foreign land. Not leaving when told was provocation, which is agression by another name.
    Fort Sumter was federal land, not state land. Assuming that the Confederacy had a legal right to one iota of territory, they still had no claim over Ft. Sumter.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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