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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I see it more like the South was allowed to secede and then the North just went back in and re-conquered their weak asses. White Southerners should be glad they weren't turned into slaves. If I was Abe, I'd have enslaved the whole lot of them. From Mason county Ky to the Gulf of Mexico, White Southerners should have been turned into the North's free labor sources.
    Then basically you would stand against slavery only to have slaves yourself.

    You guys are evil because you have slaves.

    *Defeats evil guys*

    Now you're my slaves!

  2. #152
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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I was talking about what it meant for the country after that point. Today we are all supposed to accept the peoples consent doesn't matter at all and the government has the right to maintain itself even against our own will. They are basically ignoring our consent to be governed and forcing themselves onto us even if we were to one day disagree. That is a problem.

    As for your comment however, there is more to the reason for the north to fight than slaves just there was more to it for the south.
    So, how exactly was the United States, at the time of the Civil War, ignoring the consent of its citizens?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Then basically you would stand against slavery only to have slaves yourself.

    You guys are evil because you have slaves.

    *Defeats evil guys*

    Now you're my slaves!
    Now. I'm just thinking that the conquered people should be glad they weren't enslaved. Personally, I would enslave those people who proudly enslaved others just to give them a taste of their own medicine.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    So, if a group of people feel like their government is acting without their consent, it's alright to raise a rebellion?

    If a government forces a group of people to free their slaves against the slave owners consent, is that an act tyranny? According to your definition, which is "any act which forces compliance from the unwilling", that is tyranny.

    If that's tyranny, give me tyranny any day.
    you've conflated the issue.

    The government didn't force a group to free their slaves, the issue of slavery was already resolved before the Civil War with the Corwin Amendment. The South won.

    The government forced free men to submit and succumb to an interloping force and authority which they no longer recognized, no longer gave their consent to be governed by. After the North's War of Aggression, with its victory then the North disgarded their loss on the slavery issue and set free slaves which at the time weren't theirs to free. The Emancipation Proclamation originally freeing another country's slaves (The tyrant had no legal jurisdiction over the Confederate States of America).

    It's obvious you'll choose tyranny, you support tyrants for God's sake....

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    you've conflated the issue.

    The government didn't force a group to free their slaves, the issue of slavery was already resolved before the Civil War with the Corwin Amendment. The South won.

    The government forced free men to submit and succumb to an interloping force and authority which they no longer recognized, no longer gave their consent to be governed by. After the North's War of Aggression, with its victory then the North disgarded their loss on the slavery issue and set free slaves which at the time weren't theirs to free. The Emancipation Proclamation originally freeing another country's slaves (The tyrant had no legal jurisdiction over the Confederate States of America).

    It's obvious you'll choose tyranny, you support tyrants for God's sake....
    The corwin amendment never passed.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    The corwin amendment never passed.
    Yes, it did. It wasn't ratified. 3 States ratified it but because the Confederacy had already formed there was little point to continue.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    hei

    Yes, it did. It wasn't ratified. 3 States ratified it but because the Confederacy had already formed there was little point to continue.
    So it didn't become law, and the south didn't win.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    you've conflated the issue.

    The government didn't force a group to free their slaves, the issue of slavery was already resolved before the Civil War with the Corwin Amendment. The South won.

    The government forced free men to submit and succumb to an interloping force and authority which they no longer recognized, no longer gave their consent to be governed by. After the North's War of Aggression, with its victory then the North disgarded their loss on the slavery issue and set free slaves which at the time weren't theirs to free. The Emancipation Proclamation originally freeing another country's slaves (The tyrant had no legal jurisdiction over the Confederate States of America).

    It's obvious you'll choose tyranny, you support tyrants for God's sake....
    I hear that a lot.

    For the side which had its ass handed to them, the South sure has a lot of chutzpah.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    So it didn't become law, and the south didn't win.


    Departing President James Buchanan endorsed the Corwin Amendment by taking the unusual step of signing it.[13] The Corwin Amendment also has the distinction of being the only constitutional amendment offered to the states by Congress to have an actual numerical designation prematurely assigned to it by Congress—it appears as "Article Thirteen" in the proposing Congressional resolution.

    Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address, said of the Corwin Amendment:[14][15]

    I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service....[H]olding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.
    Corwin Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This Amendment was so much a given, giving the South victory over the slavery issue, that the POTUS already signed it and gave it a numerical designation.

    The South already had plans of their own, their own Country with their own laws, with their own government whose authority they'd give their consent to.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do you have exclusive right to control access to your home haymarket?
    How about your person?

    Would you agree that both of those are true? If you explore ownership you will find it all fits under this same umbrella. Even in collective societies those outside of that group can not use that property. However, in this case you wish to say there is a weird exception to the rule where the owner of the property does not have control of access, but instead some other person that has no claim of ownership can enter his property against his will. Tell me, how does property work in nature? Does someone have to show aggression towards the owner to use the property against his will? The answer is yes, and its really no different with this law here, or even in society as a whole. So tell me Haymarket, how is aggression towards property justified? How is this law not a violation of property rights? It's clearly a law that goes against the very nature of how property works, so there is little doubt its a violation of property rights.
    So like Indiana Jones in RAIDERS, you are just making all this up as you go along?

    You claim that ownership gives you certain rights. I point out that we live in the USA and show you the law which says you do NOT have the rights you claim you do.

    So where are you getting these ownership rights from?
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