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Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    ChezC3? He is talking about the war itself and what it means to be governed by consent. He is not talking about slavery at all.

    There is something to be said about a union not allowing itself to be split under any conditions.
    So, if slaves owners feel that their government is acting without their consent by prohibiting slavery, do they have a right to rise in rebellion against that government?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    So, if slaves owners feel that their government is acting without their consent by prohibiting slavery, do they have a right to rise in rebellion against that government?
    Rebellion should not be necessary to be governed by consent. In fact, the only reason it is necessary is that the government feels it's authority is outside of the consent of the governed. In fact, the government gets its authority by the consent of the governed and if that is no longer present the government should step down. The reason for a fight is that the government refuses to recognize its place.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Rebellion should not be necessary to be governed by consent. In fact, the only reason it is necessary is that the government feels it's authority is outside of the consent of the governed.
    The consent of the governed slaves and women don't seem to matter to you. Why?

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    The consent of the governed slaves and women don't seem to matter to you. Why?
    I'm not supporting their decision to ignore a section of the population, but there is a real problem when the government ignores the people it is governing and declares itself unbreakable.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The government gets its authority by the consent of the governed and if that is no longer present the government should step down.
    Even when it comes to denying people basic rights? If tomorrow a majority of the population wished to own slaves, and the United States government refused to recognize that wish, our government should step down?

    Bull****. That's not tyranny on the governments part. That is tyranny of the majority. Plain and simple.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    but there is a real problem when the government ignores the people it is governing and declares itself unbreakable.
    There is no problem whatsoever when a government ignores the wishes of slave owners wanting to continue owning slaves.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm not supporting their decision to ignore a section of the population, but there is a real problem when the government ignores the people it is governing and declares itself unbreakable.
    I see it more like the South was allowed to secede and then the North just went back in and re-conquered their weak asses. White Southerners should be glad they weren't turned into slaves. If I was Abe, I'd have enslaved the whole lot of them. From Mason county Ky to the Gulf of Mexico, White Southerners should have been turned into the North's free labor sources.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    The same can be said to the people who view him in the worst possible light imaginable.
    Which I don't, but he's most definitely the most overrated president next to Washington.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm not supporting their decision to ignore a section of the population, but there is a real problem when the government ignores the people it is governing and declares itself unbreakable.
    A majority of the population was held in bondage by a minority.

    The U.S. simply ignored the will of that minority, and didn't let them steal humans and territory.

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    There is no problem whatsoever when a government ignores the wishes of slave owners wanting to continue owning slaves.
    I was talking about what it meant for the country after that point. Today we are all supposed to accept the peoples consent doesn't matter at all and the government has the right to maintain itself even against our own will. They are basically ignoring our consent to be governed and forcing themselves onto us even if we were to one day disagree. That is a problem.

    As for your comment however, there is more to the reason for the north to fight than slaves just there was more to it for the south.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-09-13 at 10:34 PM.

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