Page 12 of 37 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 364

Thread: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

  1. #111
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:28 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,586

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    This was you:



    What do you call that if not a fallacy?
    How is a statement about the real conditions both you and I live under a fallacy?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #112
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The anals of history
    Last Seen
    07-25-15 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,348

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Here's one dissenter. *raises hand*

    His importance is hard to deny, but I'm no fan of Lincoln.
    I'm with you there.

  3. #113
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How is a statement about the real conditions both you and I live under a fallacy?
    Because you were simply not stating it as a fact, but using it as a way to trump all other arguments and claim them as invalid.

  4. #114
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:28 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,586

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I already knew where your ideas came from and to tell you the truth that was the entire foundation of my dispute. Did you think I wasn't aware for some reason? Regardless, you were using it to win the debate.
    YOU - you - are the one making statements about rights that come with ownership. You live in the USA as do I. I pointed out to you that you were wrong. The law in the USA says otherwise and I provided it for you.

    So the responsibility is totally and completely upon you to say where these claims about ownership are coming from because they are clearly NOT part of the real world USA that both you and I live in.

    This involves NO fallacy. It involves verifiable evidence for ones claims. I provided such to you. Now its your turn to provide it to me.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-09-13 at 05:49 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #115
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:28 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,586

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Because you were simply not stating it as a fact, but using it as a way to trump all other arguments and claim them as invalid.
    You clearly DO NOT UNDERSTAND what a fallacy is. I am NOT saying that the reality trumps your argument. I am saying that you are arguing that owners have certain rights which they clearly DO NOT HAVE as evidenced by the real laws I provided for you.

    What part of that are you not able to comprehend?

    You are claiming owners have certain rights. I pointed out to you that they clearly DO NOT have those rights in USA 2013 and I provided verifiable proof of the same.

    So where is your verifiable proof that owners have the rights you claim they do?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #116
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    What law(s) are you talking about, exactly? Slavery? I don't give a damn if the people of a state who supported slavery refused to give their "consent" on eliminating slavery.
    Keep in context of the conversation. You said, secession wasn't legal, if it isn't legal than there must be a law that would be broke, no? (I don't recall seeing one in this regard but I was playing along for your benefit)



    No. We are a perpetual Union. A state cannot unilaterally secede from the Union.
    No we are a Union of States,or "UNITED STATES", get it? not states of a Union. That was the way it was determined at the beginning, the tyrant he's the one who put that mishegoss in your head.

    He freed slaves while enslaving a nation.

  7. #117
    Mod Conspiracy Theorist
    rocket88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    A very blue state
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,119

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The countries that solved it in the way I was saying it should have been done here had a bigger problem with slavery than we ever had and the rights of the black population came about faster in those areas than they did here. There is no reason to expect that it wouldn't have been even faster here than there if we did the same thing they did.

    How is saying that war was the worst way possible to about solving hardships in the black population defending slavery?
    The whole idea that eventually the South would have gotten rid of slavery is a myth that's been perpetuated by apologists for years. The textile mills would have gone South to be closer to the cotton (as they eventually did). Slaves would have represented a ready and cheap labor source for them, and the system would be perpetuated. Too many people had too much property in slaves -- in fact, slaves represented the largest factor in economic growth in the South.

    It should be noted that wealth grows roughly 30 percent over the decade of the 1850s in both the North and South. However, in the South, the value of slaves grew about 40 percent over the decade, while non-slave wealth grew at only about 25 percent.

    Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave
    In fact, slaves represented about half of ALL the wealth of the South (same source as above, table 4). There's no way that kind of capital investment just goes away.

    What made things worse for the black people in the South was ending Reconstruction, which happened in 1877 as part of the bargain that put Rutherford Hayes in the White House. In other words, ENDING the occupation is what made it worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  8. #118
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Seen
    07-16-13 @ 12:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,568

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Some people really are mad they can't own blacks anymore. Oh the horror.

    I can't own a slave so I'm not free is crazy talk.

  9. #119
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Some people really are mad they can't own blacks anymore. Oh the horror.

    I can't own a slave so I'm not free is crazy talk.
    What are you talking about? No one here wants to own slaves. All I did from the start was push for a historically more effective way for blacks to gain their rights than war.

    Btw, ChezC3's argument is not about owning slaves either. It's about the right of self determination.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-09-13 at 06:34 PM.

  10. #120
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,912
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: Abraham Lincoln - Right or Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Webb View Post
    This is probably a bad idea for a poll. I just want to apologize right now for starting this poll. I'm already embarrassed...

    Here's one opinion:

    Top 10 Most Influential Presidents
    By Martin Kelly, About.com Guide

    "Of the 43 men who have been president of the United States, there are some truly clear choices of who were the most important and influential presidents.

    1. Abraham Lincoln
    Abraham Lincoln saved the Union during the American Civil War. His leadership during the war was one of no compromise but at the same time understanding that he would eventually have to unite the states once the North won the war. His actions eventually led to the abolition of slavery across the United States."


    Ranking the Top Ten Most Influential Presidents

    ***
    Here's another source:

    Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States

    "George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin D. Roosevelt are consistently ranked at the top of the lists."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._United_States

    ***
    And another:

    Lincoln wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey

    "It's been 145 years since Abraham Lincoln appeared on a ballot, but admiration for the man who saved the union and sparked the end of slavery is as strong as ever, according to a new survey.

    Lincoln finished first in a ranking by historians of the 42 former White House occupants."


    Lincoln wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey - CNN

    ***
    Does everyone agree?

    How long was Killing Lincoln by Bill O'Reilly the New York Times best-seller? It's still in the no. 2 position right now.

    I can't find anyone that's critical of Honest Abe. I guess this is a non-subject to everyone. I apologize again, I'm sorry.
    I think Washington 1st because without him there would be no United States. 2nd Abe Lincoln for the reason you stated, 3rd FDR, 4th Thomas Jefferson, 5th Teddy Roosevelt and in 6th I would place James Madison because of the war of 1812 which was really the 2nd revolutionary war and a loss there would have brought the U.S. back under the crown.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Page 12 of 37 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •