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Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

Are Homosexuals oppressed in America?

  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    63
I tend to place a higher standard on oppression, like the Jewish oppression at the hand of the Nazis, or my great-grandparents under slavery.

If homosexuals can be multi-millionaires, own their own businesses, say what they want, where they want, when they want, among other things, then I don't see that as oppression.

Then you should have found a better definition to fit what you wanted. The definitions you supplied, both answer as yes.
 
Of course not.

However, they should appreciate the meaning of actual oppression, instead of equating the inability to redefine marriage to being in slavery/being killed by Nazi Germans, etc.

Maybe they aren't trying to redefine marriage, they are just correcting what was wrong in the first place...
 
I like how Wake posted a definition of oppresion that fits the current treatment of homosexuals but then says that gays are not being oppressed.
 
Maybe they aren't trying to redefine marriage, they are just correcting what was wrong in the first place...

Right. Marriage has been wrong for thousands of years. Let's correct the church as well, since it's been wrong for thousands of years as well.
 
Of course not.

However, they should appreciate the meaning of actual oppression, instead of equating the inability to redefine marriage to being in slavery/being killed by Nazi Germans, etc.

You supplied a definition. Your definition fits gays. That is not the fault of gay people.

And by the way, good job on Godwinning your own thread.
 
You supplied a definition. Your definition fits gays. That is not the fault of gay people.

And by the way, good job on Godwinning your own thread.

1.Keep (someone) in subservience and hardship, esp. by the unjust exercise of authority.
2.Cause (someone) to feel distressed, anxious, or uncomfortable: "he was oppressed by worry".

Homosexuals are not placed in subservience or hardship by an unjust exercise of authority.

Definition #2 would mean that pretty much anyone is oppressed, because they fee distressed/anxious/unconfortable about something that slights them.

You should probably look up the definition of "Godwin's Law." We're actually talking about oppression; Nazi Germany is a great example of actual oppression, as well as American slavery.
 
Are those things currently happening? I don't believe I see my cousin being jailed, but that he's going to Wisconsin University. Nor do I see homosexuals being taken to mental hospitals.

Also, is "hate crime/hate" being misused? Last I checked believing homosexuality itself was a sin for religious reasons is neither hate nor hate crime.

Is Ellen Degeneres oppressed? How about Elton John?

I have known and if you Google you will find cases today where gays lose jobs because they are gay if the employer finds out. We still need legal documentation to get information from a hospital. When parents treat their kids like pariah and they kill themselves and the rate of gay teen suicide is extremely high we feel that pressure and hatred in many parts of society. I certainly would feel timid about being so out in certain areas of the US. I know there are areas where if I kiss my wife (yes I am married) say in a restaurant I would worry about getting to the car safely. There are some places where I can feel very comfortable but others I believe I would be in danger. I can only imagine how gay males would feel in some areas. This is not the kind of freedom you have. This is the abridged edition.
You don't need gas chambers fired up to know that a persons freedoms are less than a heterosexual.
 
I wouldn't use the word "opressed." Seems too harsh. But without a doubt, gays in the US are considered second class citizens for the most part.

I somewhat agree... certainly there are pockets of America where gays are seen as second class citizens. Some in the media and prominent on the Cable shows see gays struggle as on par with the civil rights struggle.

Blacks and gays: The shared struggle for civil rights - PostPartisan - The Washington Post

How many "straight only" water fountains are there? Where are gays told to sit in the back of the bus? Are gay rally's bringing out the police and fire departments and turning the dogs on them? How about the fire hoses? No, the LBGT community has it much easier than blacks during the Civil Rights movement. I, as a 1st generation born white German/Romanian male mutt am even offended that some would put LBGT on the same level as 1960's civil rights movement.
 
I think the word "Bigotry" comes to mind over "Oppression".

Bigotry, racism, sexism - all the those categories - unfortunately are taught - not innate.
 
The right wing mantra is that if the demographic in question doesn't vote for their politicians, they're not "really" being oppressed. If gays, blacks, Hispanics, Jews and the disabled were overwhelmingly Republican. They'd be crying bloody murder about the things minorities in this country go through. Instead they cry about the silent majority that just happens to make up 90% of our government and the overwhelming majority of business leaders, CEOs and media figures. :lol:
 
Currently, do you think homosexuals are oppressed in America?
It's not really a yes or no question. I've been to places where it would be a definite yes, I've also been places where nobody cares, but they'd rather not know, and yet other places where gays can be open about it without fear of repercussion. Surprisingly enough, parts of California are some of the worse places for gays to live.
 
Homosexuals are not placed in subservience or hardship by an unjust exercise of authority.

Imn some states gays cannot adopt, in most states gays cannot marry. Gays are still the victim of losing houses and jobs due to their orientation

Definition #2 would mean that pretty much anyone is oppressed, because they fee distressed/anxious/unconfortable about something that slights them.

The way gays are treated by society makes them much more subject to distress/anxiety/discomfort than average.

You should probably look up the definition of "Godwin's Law." We're actually talking about oppression; Nazi Germany is a great example of actual oppression, as well as American slavery.

Nazi germany is hardly the only example of oppression.
 
I don't think homosexuals are oppressed. It's a funky civil rights era tactic for them to try and label themselves as an oppressed minority on par with blacks during the civil rights era.
 
I somewhat agree... certainly there are pockets of America where gays are seen as second class citizens. Some in the media and prominent on the Cable shows see gays struggle as on par with the civil rights struggle.

Blacks and gays: The shared struggle for civil rights - PostPartisan - The Washington Post

How many "straight only" water fountains are there? Where are gays told to sit in the back of the bus? Are gay rally's bringing out the police and fire departments and turning the dogs on them? How about the fire hoses? No, the LBGT community has it much easier than blacks during the Civil Rights movement. I, as a 1st generation born white German/Romanian male mutt am even offended that some would put LBGT on the same level as 1960's civil rights movement.

Being able to tell if someone is black on sight is far easier than picking out someone who is gay. In many cases prior to the mid 80's gays lost jobs because they were gay. They still do at times if an employer finds out. Blacks were able to serve openly in the military when? Gays are able to serve openly just now. Talk about a different water fountain. I don't say that progress has not been made but when you compare there are many things the same.
I know older gays that used to wear wedding rings to keep from being found out or they would be persecuted in neighborhoods and on the job.
 
However, they should appreciate the meaning of actual oppression, instead of equating the inability to redefine marriage to being in slavery/being killed by Nazi Germans, etc.

First off, it is intellectually dishonest to say that same sex marriage "redefines" marriage. It does nothing to change marriage or affect heterosexual unions so it does not redefine marriage, it only adds to the definition. When you thoughtlessly use such blatantly dishonest rhetoric, you shut down people's willingness to discuss this issue with you in a civil manner.

Second, oppression is not an absolute, it is a spectrum. Are gays in America as oppressed as the Jews were in Nazi Germany? No. But that doesn't mean they don't face some degree of oppression, particularly if they are also a minority or impoverished. This game you are playing of arguing that gays equate themselves to slaves and Holocaust Jews is equally insulting and intellectually dishonest.

Third, oppression exists for gays in many ways. I've experienced housing and employment discrimination on the basis of my orientation. So no, it is not just a marriage issue in this country.

Fourth, I find it absolutely hilarious given the persecution complex that you and many Christians in America have displayed to take such a disrespectful and dishonest approach towards this discussion with the gay community. Apparently you face terrible oppression as a Christian in a nation that is over 70% Christian but you can't imagine how a sexual minority that equates to 8% of the country could face any degree of oppression. That is laughable.
 
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Are homosexuals forced into slavery, not allowed to speak, could be killed at a whim, killed in gas chambers, not allowed to own property, or enter/leave the country?

Nope, but like others said, just because these things are not occurring, does not mean that oppression is not occurring. The things you've stated above are not the sole hallmarks of oppression, which can have both overt and subtle forms.

Why is marriage such an aspect of oppression? Why is it that if you can't redefine marriage, you're suddenly oppressed?

Well, gee, I suppose when women chose to "redefine voting" during the suffrage movement, they weren't being oppressed either!! :roll:

Think about it. There are so many privileges that straight people take for granted that gay folks can't. For one, think about the social stigma of being a homosexual - a stigma that often leads to family problems and psychological distress. Imagine if half of society considers you sinful/disgusting/evil precisely because of who you are.

Then consider all the privileges conferred by the institution of marriage - hospital visitation rights, spousal benefits, the ability to confer your life insurance benefits to the rest of your family. In essence, gays can't have the same family life that straight people can due legal barriers. Gays are oppressed precisely because they cannot legally consummate a relationship (something I view as a fundamental, basic relationship) - that of romantic love - that the rest of us take for granted.

And even then, there are states in America that allow gay marriage.

A select few, and it's not like all gay people in America are wealthy enough to simply uproot their lives and leave to go to another state. On top of that, you have a ban on gay marriage at the federal level, which affects gay employees who work for the federal government.
 
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Imn some states gays cannot adopt, in most states gays cannot marry. Gays are still the victim of losing houses and jobs due to their orientation



The way gays are treated by society makes them much more subject to distress/anxiety/discomfort than average.



(3) Nazi germany is hardly the only example of oppression.

(1) I'll reiterate my stance again: I believe gays should have the right to adopt. I neither oppose nor support gay marriage, though personally I don't think marriage should be redefined. I don't think orientation should be a factor in losing houses/jobs/etc.

(2) I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms. There are numerous things that gays are able to have. Iirc, some colleges offer college grants simply for being gay. That's not oppression. If you're allowed to vote, own businesses, own TV shows, etc, you're not oppressed. Do you think all groups are oppressed, save the straight, white, male Christian?

(3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?
 
(1) I'll reiterate my stance again: I believe gays should have the right to adopt. I neither oppose nor support gay marriage, though personally I don't think marriage should be redefined. I don't think orientation should be a factor in losing houses/jobs/etc.

(2) I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms. There are numerous things that gays are able to have. Iirc, some colleges offer college grants simply for being gay. That's not oppression. If you're allowed to vote, own businesses, own TV shows, etc, you're not oppressed. Do you think all groups are oppressed, save the straight, white, male Christian?

(3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?

There are different degrees of oppression. Since it seems you have never been on the short end of the stick you may not know the degrees. When one person in the US has rights that no one else does it is a degree of oppression. When a segment of society lives in fear in some areas because of their sexuality that is oppression. When a group has a right that a group of 3% doesn't have that is oppression. When kissing your loved one on the street or in a restaurant can net your brains being beat out by those around you that is oppression. When you make someone a pariah in one area, when churches say you're a sinner and speck against you and people pick up on this they treat you accordingly and that is oppression. You don't have to live under oppression to recognize that some are and some aren't. Gays are. Gas ovens have not been set up but oppression is still real in many bigoted forms.
 
(1) I'll reiterate my stance again: I believe gays should have the right to adopt. I neither oppose nor support gay marriage, though personally I don't think marriage should be redefined. I don't think orientation should be a factor in losing houses/jobs/etc.

Irrelevant. You did not ask about your position on gay issues, you asked if gays are oppressed and then you supplied a definition. Using your definition, I can only find that by that definition gays in this country are oppressed. The fact I would not have used those definitions is also irrelevant but worth noting.

(2) I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms. There are numerous things that gays are able to have. Iirc, some colleges offer college grants simply for being gay. That's not oppression. If you're allowed to vote, own businesses, own TV shows, etc, you're not oppressed. Do you think all groups are oppressed, save the straight, white, male Christian?

Your first sentence there shows the problem and why the second definition fits. Further, New York does not as a whole "embrace" homosexuality.

(3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?

It is an extreme example. It is far from the best example.
 
I tend to place a higher standard on oppression, like the Jewish oppression at the hand of the Nazis, or my great-grandparents under slavery.

If homosexuals can be multi-millionaires, own their own businesses, say what they want, where they want, when they want, among other things, then I don't see that as oppression.

The trouble with that is it allows for no differing degree of oppression. As such, it would be inaccurate. Nor can you judge the whoel by a minority. These over generalized views also lead to inaccurates. Even during slavery, there were exceptions.
 
I usually think "oppression" is a very powerful word that brings to mind slavery in the US, apartheid in South Africa, Jews in Nazi Germany, and pretty much everybody except Josef Stalin in the USSR. I was ready to vote no.

The second definition given in the OP made me change my vote to yes.

2.Cause (someone) to feel distressed, anxious, or uncomfortable: "he was oppressed by worry".
 
But then definition #2 could be applied to pretty much anyone in America, including Christians, given any plausible reason.
 
3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?

No.....but saying that it's the bar in order for opression to take place basically excludes everything beyond genocide. Aparteid and segregation in the south are below the bar of how Jews were treated by Nazi Germany.

I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms.

As Redress pointed out...this sentence says a lot. It's not like New York gives a key to the city or every homosexual that moves there or treats them great. The only difference is it's generally accepted. Kids down't gawk if they see two guys holding hands walking down the street.
 
But then definition #2 could be applied to pretty much anyone in America, including Christians, given any plausible reason.

Why did you make this thread? You failed to hear any of the valid points most of the posters have made. You have stuck to your very simplistic view in framing the OP. If these people aren't being tortured and gassed in chambers they are not oppressed in your view. You have not even given ear to the many ways oppression takes place. You see this stark black and white picture. Oppression does come in degrees and if I am not as free as you no matter how small the issue I am oppressed. Most of the issues brought forth are not small issues.
Most alter a persons life.
 
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