View Poll Results: Are Homosexuals oppressed in America?

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  • Yes, homosexuals are oppressed in America.

    53 29.61%
  • No, homosexuals are not oppressed in America

    125 69.83%
  • I don't know

    1 0.56%
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Thread: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

  1. #41
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    However, they should appreciate the meaning of actual oppression, instead of equating the inability to redefine marriage to being in slavery/being killed by Nazi Germans, etc.
    First off, it is intellectually dishonest to say that same sex marriage "redefines" marriage. It does nothing to change marriage or affect heterosexual unions so it does not redefine marriage, it only adds to the definition. When you thoughtlessly use such blatantly dishonest rhetoric, you shut down people's willingness to discuss this issue with you in a civil manner.

    Second, oppression is not an absolute, it is a spectrum. Are gays in America as oppressed as the Jews were in Nazi Germany? No. But that doesn't mean they don't face some degree of oppression, particularly if they are also a minority or impoverished. This game you are playing of arguing that gays equate themselves to slaves and Holocaust Jews is equally insulting and intellectually dishonest.

    Third, oppression exists for gays in many ways. I've experienced housing and employment discrimination on the basis of my orientation. So no, it is not just a marriage issue in this country.

    Fourth, I find it absolutely hilarious given the persecution complex that you and many Christians in America have displayed to take such a disrespectful and dishonest approach towards this discussion with the gay community. Apparently you face terrible oppression as a Christian in a nation that is over 70% Christian but you can't imagine how a sexual minority that equates to 8% of the country could face any degree of oppression. That is laughable.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 03-12-12 at 03:15 PM.
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Are homosexuals forced into slavery, not allowed to speak, could be killed at a whim, killed in gas chambers, not allowed to own property, or enter/leave the country?
    Nope, but like others said, just because these things are not occurring, does not mean that oppression is not occurring. The things you've stated above are not the sole hallmarks of oppression, which can have both overt and subtle forms.

    Why is marriage such an aspect of oppression? Why is it that if you can't redefine marriage, you're suddenly oppressed?
    Well, gee, I suppose when women chose to "redefine voting" during the suffrage movement, they weren't being oppressed either!!

    Think about it. There are so many privileges that straight people take for granted that gay folks can't. For one, think about the social stigma of being a homosexual - a stigma that often leads to family problems and psychological distress. Imagine if half of society considers you sinful/disgusting/evil precisely because of who you are.

    Then consider all the privileges conferred by the institution of marriage - hospital visitation rights, spousal benefits, the ability to confer your life insurance benefits to the rest of your family. In essence, gays can't have the same family life that straight people can due legal barriers. Gays are oppressed precisely because they cannot legally consummate a relationship (something I view as a fundamental, basic relationship) - that of romantic love - that the rest of us take for granted.

    And even then, there are states in America that allow gay marriage.
    A select few, and it's not like all gay people in America are wealthy enough to simply uproot their lives and leave to go to another state. On top of that, you have a ban on gay marriage at the federal level, which affects gay employees who work for the federal government.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-12-12 at 03:19 PM.
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Imn some states gays cannot adopt, in most states gays cannot marry. Gays are still the victim of losing houses and jobs due to their orientation



    The way gays are treated by society makes them much more subject to distress/anxiety/discomfort than average.



    (3) Nazi germany is hardly the only example of oppression.
    (1) I'll reiterate my stance again: I believe gays should have the right to adopt. I neither oppose nor support gay marriage, though personally I don't think marriage should be redefined. I don't think orientation should be a factor in losing houses/jobs/etc.

    (2) I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms. There are numerous things that gays are able to have. Iirc, some colleges offer college grants simply for being gay. That's not oppression. If you're allowed to vote, own businesses, own TV shows, etc, you're not oppressed. Do you think all groups are oppressed, save the straight, white, male Christian?

    (3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?

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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    (1) I'll reiterate my stance again: I believe gays should have the right to adopt. I neither oppose nor support gay marriage, though personally I don't think marriage should be redefined. I don't think orientation should be a factor in losing houses/jobs/etc.

    (2) I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms. There are numerous things that gays are able to have. Iirc, some colleges offer college grants simply for being gay. That's not oppression. If you're allowed to vote, own businesses, own TV shows, etc, you're not oppressed. Do you think all groups are oppressed, save the straight, white, male Christian?

    (3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?
    There are different degrees of oppression. Since it seems you have never been on the short end of the stick you may not know the degrees. When one person in the US has rights that no one else does it is a degree of oppression. When a segment of society lives in fear in some areas because of their sexuality that is oppression. When a group has a right that a group of 3% doesn't have that is oppression. When kissing your loved one on the street or in a restaurant can net your brains being beat out by those around you that is oppression. When you make someone a pariah in one area, when churches say you're a sinner and speck against you and people pick up on this they treat you accordingly and that is oppression. You don't have to live under oppression to recognize that some are and some aren't. Gays are. Gas ovens have not been set up but oppression is still real in many bigoted forms.
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    (1) I'll reiterate my stance again: I believe gays should have the right to adopt. I neither oppose nor support gay marriage, though personally I don't think marriage should be redefined. I don't think orientation should be a factor in losing houses/jobs/etc.
    Irrelevant. You did not ask about your position on gay issues, you asked if gays are oppressed and then you supplied a definition. Using your definition, I can only find that by that definition gays in this country are oppressed. The fact I would not have used those definitions is also irrelevant but worth noting.

    (2) I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms. There are numerous things that gays are able to have. Iirc, some colleges offer college grants simply for being gay. That's not oppression. If you're allowed to vote, own businesses, own TV shows, etc, you're not oppressed. Do you think all groups are oppressed, save the straight, white, male Christian?
    Your first sentence there shows the problem and why the second definition fits. Further, New York does not as a whole "embrace" homosexuality.

    (3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?
    It is an extreme example. It is far from the best example.
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I tend to place a higher standard on oppression, like the Jewish oppression at the hand of the Nazis, or my great-grandparents under slavery.

    If homosexuals can be multi-millionaires, own their own businesses, say what they want, where they want, when they want, among other things, then I don't see that as oppression.
    The trouble with that is it allows for no differing degree of oppression. As such, it would be inaccurate. Nor can you judge the whoel by a minority. These over generalized views also lead to inaccurates. Even during slavery, there were exceptions.

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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    I usually think "oppression" is a very powerful word that brings to mind slavery in the US, apartheid in South Africa, Jews in Nazi Germany, and pretty much everybody except Josef Stalin in the USSR. I was ready to vote no.

    The second definition given in the OP made me change my vote to yes.

    2.Cause (someone) to feel distressed, anxious, or uncomfortable: "he was oppressed by worry".


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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    But then definition #2 could be applied to pretty much anyone in America, including Christians, given any plausible reason.

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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    3)Yet Nazi Germany is a prime, direct example of oppression. Should Nazi Germany never be used in discussions, no matter how critical?
    No.....but saying that it's the bar in order for opression to take place basically excludes everything beyond genocide. Aparteid and segregation in the south are below the bar of how Jews were treated by Nazi Germany.

    I disagree. There are places like New York that embrace the sin of homosexuality with open arms.
    As Redress pointed out...this sentence says a lot. It's not like New York gives a key to the city or every homosexual that moves there or treats them great. The only difference is it's generally accepted. Kids down't gawk if they see two guys holding hands walking down the street.
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    But then definition #2 could be applied to pretty much anyone in America, including Christians, given any plausible reason.
    Why did you make this thread? You failed to hear any of the valid points most of the posters have made. You have stuck to your very simplistic view in framing the OP. If these people aren't being tortured and gassed in chambers they are not oppressed in your view. You have not even given ear to the many ways oppression takes place. You see this stark black and white picture. Oppression does come in degrees and if I am not as free as you no matter how small the issue I am oppressed. Most of the issues brought forth are not small issues.
    Most alter a persons life.
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