View Poll Results: Are Homosexuals oppressed in America?

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  • Yes, homosexuals are oppressed in America.

    53 29.61%
  • No, homosexuals are not oppressed in America

    125 69.83%
  • I don't know

    1 0.56%
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Thread: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

  1. #191
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Can you write in complete coherent sentences?
    So you haven't been following the thread then... tell me when you catch up. I'm interested in the answer!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #192
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    And bans on gay adoption and housing discrimination and workplace discrimination ...
    Gay adoption happens. I understand your point but I had heterosexual friends get denied while homosexual ones were accepted. Workplace discrimination happens to everybody and I have never know anybody that was denied buying a house when they had the money to pay for it.
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  3. #193
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I love it when society deems and decides except when society shouldn't...
    Society is determining it either way. Just like Brown vs. Board, gay marriage will probably be an issue resolved by the Supreme Court first. The civil rights of the minority are protected under the Constitution (supposedly), but sometimes society itself takes awhile to recognize those rights. Under these situations sometimes the court system will more progressively than the general population.

    So bottom line, there's a distinct difference between "let the people decide," and "let the courts decide." But either way, society is determining it. I just don't believe that something that I view as a fundamental right should be put up to a majority vote.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-12-12 at 08:51 PM.
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    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

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  4. #194
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Gay adoption happens. I understand your point but I had heterosexual friends get denied while homosexual ones were accepted.
    There's a difference between a heterosexual couple being denied by the adoption service and state bans on gay adoption. The former happens on an individual basis. The latter is institutional discrimination whereby one class of people is made subservient to another - the definition of oppression in the OP.

    Workplace discrimination happens to everybody
    I'm not sure what you mean by "workplace discrimination happens to everybody" since I'm pretty sure that's not true on its face.

    and I have never know anybody that was denied buying a house when they had the money to pay for it.
    HUD Addresses LGBT Housing Discrimination | The White House

  5. #195
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So you haven't been following the thread then... tell me when you catch up. I'm interested in the answer!
    It's impossible to "catch up" to someone who's backtracking.

  6. #196
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Society is determining it either way. Just like Brown vs. Board, gay marriage will probably be an issue resolved by the Supreme Court first. The civil rights of the minority are protected under the Constitution (supposedly), but sometimes society itself takes awhile to recognize those rights. Under these situations sometimes the court system will more progressively than the general population.
    Before a SCOTUS gets involved, the process must be worked through. That requires votes usually by states assembly's or if Federal, via the Congress. In my state for example, the assembly passed a gay marriage bill but the Governor decided to veto it and put the issue up for referendum. That's what we're talking about here. If put up for a referendum, the people have a majority rule vote on the subject. If that majority rule vote passes or does not pass, only then can the issue be challenged.

    What is being said in this thread is that such a majority rule should not occur - it should be summarily passed; of which I disagree. The process must be followed and if challenge yes, it may end up in the SCOTUS where again... let me point out... a majority of Federal Supreme Court Judges will vote on a decision. In that decision... a majority will rule. So when I say, majority votes in our society are prevalent and apply to all things... I mean it. Certain members decided to play like they knew better and challenged me on it yet, each and every rabbit hole we go down discussing this issue - there is always a majority vote. Whether it's passing a law, voting on a bill, voting by the public, voting for whatever --- even the electoral college. It's a a majority which over rules the minority. Each and every SCOTUS case is determined by a majority vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    So bottom line, there's a distinct difference between "let the people decide," and "let the courts decide."
    One always comes before the other, especially when there is a disagreement. But even within letting the people decide or letting the courts decide - in the case of the SCOTUS it's a majority vote, just like it's a majority vote with society and the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    But either way, society is determining it. I just don't believe that something that I view as a fundamental right should be put up to a majority vote.
    Society does determine it ultimately - we agree. But I disagree in this case (not all cases) and society must be a willing partner in such a decision as this one.


    And let me go out of my way SB to thank you for your post and as always... addressing the issue concisely and plainly without playing games; unlike other posters in this thread who cannot or are unwilling to be honest. I certainly and will always appreciate your candor even when we don't agree.
    Last edited by Ockham; 03-12-12 at 09:09 PM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #197
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It's impossible to "catch up" to someone who's backtracking.

    Read SB's post. This is how an honest person who isn't into playing forum games addresses an issue.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Read SB's post. This is how an honest person who isn't into playing forum games addresses an issue.


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  9. #199
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Gay adoption happens. I understand your point but I had heterosexual friends get denied while homosexual ones were accepted. Workplace discrimination happens to everybody and I have never know anybody that was denied buying a house when they had the money to pay for it.
    House approves bill outlawing workplace discrimination against gays
    By David M. Herszenhorn
    Published: Thursday, November 8, 2007

    WASHINGTON — The U.S. House of Representatives approved a bill granting broad protections against discrimination in the workplace for gay men, lesbians and bisexuals, a measure that supporters praised as the most important civil rights legislation since the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 but that opponents said would result in unnecessary lawsuits.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/wo...4.8252596.html

    Gay and transgender Americans may be discriminated against in renting or buying housing due to antigay or transphobic landlords and property managers. Health care providers, too, may harbor animus toward gay and transgender individuals and consequently deliver suboptimal care or even refuse to see patients who identify as such. And gay and transgender individuals may experience an outright refusal of services when attempting to access a host of public accommodations including restaurants, parks, hotels, libraries, buses, museums, and elsewhere simply because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

    Unfortunately, no federal law currently exists to shield gay and transgender individuals from this type of discrimination. A patchwork of state and local laws offers some of these protections to gay and transgender Americans. But the lack of a comprehensive federal law means that a restaurant owner in El Paso, Texas can kick a gay couple out of his establishment simply because the couple shared a kiss with one another. A landlord in West Virginia can decline to show a property to a lesbian couple. And a doctor in Indiana can deny service to a patient based on her gender identity.
    Gay and Transgender Discrimination Outside the Workplace
    There are still cases of job and housing discrimination against gays. They are far more limited than they once were. Jobs have been more normalized due to legislation.
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    Re: Are Homosexuals Oppressed?

    This thread could be a case example in Semantics 101. Some equate oppression with persecution. Others want to put oppression on a scale of 1-10, with the Holocaust at a 10 (thereby inevitably fulfilling Godwin's law).

    I believe a minority can be oppressed without being persecuted. I do not automatically dismiss as liars the Christians who say, "love the sinner, hate the sin," with the sin in this instance being homosexuality. They may be acting for good motives. In ancient Islamic states, Jews and Christians were given pretty good treatment but did not enjoy all of the same rights as Muslims. Persecution? No. Oppression? Probably, even if it is with a perceived "good intent."

    Of course, you can argue the Nazi's thought they were right too. Ditto for the slave owners. However, such claims really defy reality.

    The gay young person getting the snot beat out of him in a gym bathroom is being persecuted, as were the gays killed by the Nazi's. Gays denied the right to solemnize their loving monogamous relationships are, to my mind, being oppressed. The legislatures perpetuating this oppression think they are acting with good intent - to save the culture, save marriage, etc., but oppression is occurring.

    To put it anywhere on a scale with the holocaust is silly. Worse, it trivializes the holocaust and makes comparisons difficult.

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