View Poll Results: Do you support the bill in the article?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm a man: I'm fine with this waste of time/money

    6 16.22%
  • I'm a man: I find this offensive and a "tit for tat" useless bill

    17 45.95%
  • I'm a man: I support this bill

    3 8.11%
  • I'm a woman: I'm fine with this waste of time/money

    1 2.70%
  • I'm a woman: I find this offensive and a "tit for tat" useless bill

    0 0%
  • I'm a woman: I support this bill

    1 2.70%
  • Other: Explain

    9 24.32%
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Thread: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

  1. #51
    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You don't seem to know what the Heartbeat bill says. For instance, in the Oklahoma bill, it requires a woman who wants an abortion to hear the heartbeat of the fetus prior to the abortion being performed. So back to the point, the point of this additive bill for men, is a petty excuse to get back at men who have signed onto and are wanting to pass a law where women must hear the heartbeat prior to the abortion.

    You're continued statement about a doctor approving, or doctors care is irrelevant... Neither I nor anyone else has stated a doctor is NOT involved.
    Oh the bill is petty, alright, but THAT'S THE POINT.

    See, there are already multiple petty bills in process AGAINST WOMEN...and some of them actually have a chance at passage.

    The point so many are studiously missing is that YES, it is absurd and invasive to arbitrarily saddle people with completely irrelevant (and expensive, I'd add) requirements which inject the state into their personal medical decisions...all to score points with voters and funders whose politics come from the bronze age.

    Let patients and their chosen medical professionals figure out important medical decisions, and keep the state out of folks' genitals already.
    Last edited by cmakaioz; 03-12-12 at 07:48 PM.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  2. #52
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Oh the bill is petty, alright, but THAT'S THE POINT.

    See, there are already multiple petty bills in process AGAINST WOMEN...and some of them actually have a chance at passage.
    Realize that some people feel aborting a fetus is murder, that isn't petty. What's petty is the response... make men go through couciling before getting viagra.

    For me personally - that's fine. I don't need viagra and hopefully it'll be OTC by the time I do need or want it. But maybe I won't want it. Getting counseling about viagra use is stupid as a retort. Most men would laugh at such a moronic requirement but if they needed it would probably talk to the counselor about their golf game, sports, their kids or grandkids or something else anyway. It's a waste of time and has no life or death impact whatsoever. That's the petty part. But hey, I'm game. Pass it. Just as it is.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #53
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That's what the heartbeat bill required women to do. You're the one who brought in the "shameful"
    I never used the word shameful. Nice try.

    I do point out your rather frequent use of logical fallacy, of that I take full blame.
    You brought up doctors in comparison. I showed how that comparison was flawed. You claimed my bringing up doctors was a red herring. Major fail on your part.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #54
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I never used the word shameful. Nice try.
    Ahh... another episode of the "literal game".

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress
    ...stress and shame some one ....



    Quote Originally Posted by Redress
    You brought up doctors in comparison. I showed how that comparison was flawed. You claimed my bringing up doctors was a red herring. Major fail on your part.
    You claimed doctors had to be involved and were involved, no one claimed doctors were not involved, therefore your consistent use of logical fallacy. Epic fail on your part and really... shouldn't you know better by now?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #55
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Realize that some people feel aborting a fetus is murder, that isn't petty.
    Adding on a completely unnecessary requirement, imposed through the force of the state, is petty. It doesn't actually stop anyone from getting an abortion (for those fundamentalists who simply can't stand the fact that they haven't yet managed to achieve totalitarian or theocratic rule); it just imposes an extraneous expense upon others without reference to the professional medical opinion of anyone actually involved.

    I might prefer that car drivers be required to read a twenty-page pamphlet on consumerism and environmental sustainability every time they fill their car up at the gas station, but it would still be petty and vindictive for me to try to force that upon them by law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What's petty is the response... make men go through couciling before getting viagra.
    Oh, OK...so an invasive and heavy-handed state requirement which infantilizes men by implying that they haven't already carefully considered THEIR personal decisions is petty...but doing the same to women is just fine...OK, got it.

    I'd much rather it be the case that NO ONE go around using ANYONE's access to medical procedures as a political football, but let's be absolutely clear... it's the Fox Chorus / Santorum / Conservative Culture Warriors who picked this fight. I for one sure as hell can't fault the targets for fighting back against the war on women.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  6. #56
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Ahh... another episode of the "literal game".

    So you do not understand the difference between trying to shame some one, and something being shameful? Really? That is just....impressive.


    You claimed doctors had to be involved and were involved, no one claimed doctors were not involved, therefore your consistent use of logical fallacy. Epic fail on your part and really... shouldn't you know better by now?
    Again, you brought up doctors, then you claimed doctors are red herrings. Keep trying, but you are not doing well.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Realize that some people feel aborting a fetus is murder, that isn't petty.
    Why would any one care what peopel who do not even know what words mean think? Abortion is, by definition, not murder.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #58
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why would any one care what peopel who do not even know what words mean think? Abortion is, by definition, not murder.
    It depends on who's definition you subscribe to.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #59
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    ...
    To me, this laughable method to teach men a lesson first will fail miserably, and second is a fraudulent waste of tax payer money to even write the bill let alone submit it for consideration. The pettiness and immaturity as to the "We'll show those men" purpose is beneath contempt and certainly tarnishes what little respect Congress has left.
    There is essentially zero incremental cost. However the point it makes is valuable for those that are allowed to via the method used. What is actually a big waste of my money is a bill requiring people seeking an abortion to undergo medical thesting procedures etc. that my insurance company will have to pay for.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 03-12-12 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Do you support this law which regulates men's erections?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Adding on a completely unnecessary requirement, imposed through the force of the state, is petty. It doesn't actually stop anyone from getting an abortion (for those fundamentalists who simply can't stand the fact that they haven't yet managed to achieve totalitarian or theocratic rule); it just imposes an extraneous expense upon others without reference to the professional medical opinion of anyone actually involved.

    I might prefer that car drivers be required to read a twenty-page pamphlet on consumerism and environmental sustainability every time they fill their car up at the gas station, but it would still be petty and vindictive for me to try to force that upon them by law.



    Oh, OK...so an invasive and heavy-handed state requirement which infantilizes men by implying that they haven't already carefully considered THEIR personal decisions is petty...but doing the same to women is just fine...OK, got it.

    I'd much rather it be the case that NO ONE go around using ANYONE's access to medical procedures as a political football, but let's be absolutely clear... it's the Fox Chorus / Santorum / Conservative Culture Warriors who picked this fight. I for one sure as hell can't fault the targets for fighting back against the war on women.
    So you are equating counseling a woman before she slaughters an unborn child to counseling a man before he has a chemically assisted erection? Interesting. Or is it the insistence on providing contraception? Again...equating a medical need to not providing people free birth control...interesting. I would be interested in knowing who all these 'anti-women' people are that are denying people the right to contraception. I must be missing it...I only see people discussing who should PAY for contraception...not whether or not women should USE them.

    Me...Im fine with only providing erectile dysfunction meds to meet a medical need as prescribed by a doctor...just as oral contraceptives where required for a medical need should be prescribed. I work with an older gentleman who meets a doctor at the VA...they do actually require a visit with the doctor and a specialist before they prescribe.

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