View Poll Results: It's my body verses it's my money (read explanation)

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19. You may not vote on this poll
  • The statements are comparable.

    3 15.79%
  • The statements are not comparable.

    4 21.05%
  • I AGREE with both statements equally.

    3 15.79%
  • I DISAGREE with both statements equally.

    3 15.79%
  • I think there should be real compromise in both issues.

    2 10.53%
  • Statement 1 is right, Statement 2 is wrong.

    3 15.79%
  • Statement 2 is right, Statement 1 is wrong.

    3 15.79%
  • There is nothing useful here. I only wanted to check something.

    5 26.32%
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Thread: It's my body verses it's my money...

  1. #11
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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The two statements are unrelated for the most part. One deals with healthcare, one deals with money.
    You're not seeing it Redress. It's about leveling the playing for both men and women in reproductive rights.
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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I thought it was a little interesting that 2 poles asking potentially similar questions appeared at the same time with striking differences in opinions.

    One pole essentially said "should humans who don't carry a child in their womb have a say in whether or not the child is born?". The other one essentially said "should people who don't contribute financially to government expenses have a say in how much tax revenue is collected and/or what it is spent on?"

    Statement 1: It's my body, and whatever happens with my body is totally up to me even if someone else is dependent upon my body or is otherwise vested in the health of my body.

    Statement 2: It's my money, and whatever happens with my money is totally up to me even if someone else is dependent upon my money or is otherwise vested in my earnings.

    Are these comparable statements?

    Do you totally agree to both simultaneously? Do you totally disagree with both simultaneously? Do you think there is compromise in both areas?
    I think both statements are essentially true and are comparable in that both reflect your freedom of action in regards to what is your own. Your life is your own, therefore your body and the product of your mind and your hands are yours to do with as you please. The only limits are those drawn around us by the equal rights and liberties of others. Statement 1 seems to be addressing the issue of abortion. A pregnant woman is, however, in the position where her actions may harm the rights of the child dependent upon her body for its survival. But what the rights of that child are and when they begin are not a political or religious consideration but a scientific and philosophical one.

    Statement 2 strikes me as universally true.

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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I thought it was a little interesting that 2 poles asking potentially similar questions appeared at the same time with striking differences in opinions.

    One pole essentially said "should humans who don't carry a child in their womb have a say in whether or not the child is born?". The other one essentially said "should people who don't contribute financially to government expenses have a say in how much tax revenue is collected and/or what it is spent on?"

    Statement 1: It's my body, and whatever happens with my body is totally up to me even if someone else is dependent upon my body or is otherwise vested in the health of my body.

    Statement 2: It's my money, and whatever happens with my money is totally up to me even if someone else is dependent upon my money or is otherwise vested in my earnings.

    Are these comparable statements?

    Do you totally agree to both simultaneously? Do you totally disagree with both simultaneously? Do you think there is compromise in both areas?
    I agree fully with #1 - partially with #2.

    Overall: money is not *mine* or *yours* - it's the product of the government's financial system. It is the government's money. I simply do something in which someone else deems is applicable in exchange for said money.

    Within limits: I have a relative say over what I do with my money - but overall - it's still the government's property and ergo they ultimately have the ability to govern it.

    Our government in particular gives us priviledges and freedoms that put us in more direct control of our money - but that's purely because the government has deemed that's appropriate and *the* way we function in this society.
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  4. #14
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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I thought it was a little interesting that 2 poles asking potentially similar questions appeared at the same time with striking differences in opinions.

    One pole essentially said "should humans who don't carry a child in their womb have a say in whether or not the child is born?". The other one essentially said "should people who don't contribute financially to government expenses have a say in how much tax revenue is collected and/or what it is spent on?"

    Statement 1: It's my body, and whatever happens with my body is totally up to me even if someone else is dependent upon my body or is otherwise vested in the health of my body.

    Statement 2: It's my money, and whatever happens with my money is totally up to me even if someone else is dependent upon my money or is otherwise vested in my earnings.

    Are these comparable statements?

    Do you totally agree to both simultaneously? Do you totally disagree with both simultaneously? Do you think there is compromise in both areas?
    While I would say that both statements are true under most circumstances, like anything else there would be exceptions to the rules.

    With the first statement, when that entity is outside the body then it is absolutely true. No one has any right to anything from it nor the right to say what you can do with it as long as there is no direct harm to another. No one can force me to give blood. A mother is not forced to give breast milk. I cannot be stopped from risking my life skydiving, or taking a chance with dangerous weapons (not just guns. Ask me about the bow and arrow incident someday). The only exception I can see would be where someone has committed a crime and is convicted by due process. Then forced labor (but not forced removal of any physical part of the body, solid or fluid) is allowable.

    This first statement gets murky when you move into the area of internal dependence. That's because there is no real evidence one way or the other as to whether or not the developing ZEF possess that whatever that puts us above the plants and animals we kill on a daily basis.

    The second statement is a little more easier to assert, with the immediate exception being those who are born of you (unless you legally are relieved of or transfer your responsibilities) and those who you legally take on the responsibilities for (i.e adoption). When it comes to government, it does move into a bit of haziness as indeed there is at least some aspect of majority rules (although rule of law should always override majority rules). However it is not illogical to assert that is someone is not contributing to the financial pot that they should have less or no say in what happens with the money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The two statements are unrelated for the most part. One deals with healthcare, one deals with money.
    The first is beyond healthcare, even if the OP intended to only focus on that aspect. The actions I pointed out above and others, like "drug" use (which to some people include alcohol, tobacco, even caffeine) or prostitution, fall under the statement of "It's my body to do with as I please". They ARE related in that both the money and the body belong to a given individual and the freedom of choice of what to do with them are the same. Yes in each area of freedom there will always be some exceptions, not counting the violation of others freedoms. But the freedom of choice of use is still the same.

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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Three things are missing
    balance
    if we have this, then all are taxed and all have a say ...plus, the woman and the baby are respected as they should be..
    family
    if we have this, then its unthinkable to kill a family member, so abortion is out of the question
    reality
    in real life we have neither, but we should be striving to have one and two.
    Now, the question is , how do we instill family and balance ???
    These two things fail - a law against abortion, never has worked and never will.
    not allowing the poor a political voice
    Last edited by earthworm; 03-10-12 at 11:37 AM.

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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I agree fully with #1 - partially with #2.

    Overall: money is not *mine* or *yours* - it's the product of the government's financial system. It is the government's money. I simply do something in which someone else deems is applicable in exchange for said money.

    Within limits: I have a relative say over what I do with my money - but overall - it's still the government's property and ergo they ultimately have the ability to govern it.
    Then everything purchased with the governments money is also the governments property?

    Our government in particular gives us priviledges and freedoms that put us in more direct control of our money - but that's purely because the government has deemed that's appropriate and *the* way we function in this society.
    No, we give ourselves privledges and freedoms. It's our government, we tell it what it can do and can't do.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    So, can I "take" your body for your own well being or that of another? If yes, can I "take" other property that belongs to you for your own well being or that of another?

    If I can not take your body for your own well being or that of another, can I still take other things that belong to you to help someone else?

    It has to boil down to degrees, but I can't tell where the limits to the gray area begin an end. Can I take what's yours to save a life? If so, who's life - any life? Can I take what's yours to save your life?
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

  8. #18
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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Then everything purchased with the governments money is also the governments property?



    No, we give ourselves privledges and freedoms. It's our government, we tell it what it can do and can't do.
    Yeah sure - we would be able to govern our own government's handling of our monies if we elected Congressman, a President who thereby elected members of the Judiciary who all agreed on how to change the Constitution - I see your point.
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  9. #19
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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yeah sure - we would be able to govern our own government's handling of our monies if we elected Congressman, a President who thereby elected members of the Judiciary who all agreed on how to change the Constitution - I see your point.
    I sense some sarcasm..

    For the most part, we allow the government to operate in good faith, and it's usually not until it does something "serious" that we stand up as a people and shake it up. Take prohibition, for example. The government thought it would be better for us that alcohol be illegal (and they are probably right) but the American people put a stop to that.

    Just because we don't get involved (as a people) over minor disagreements doesn't mean we don't own our government vs the opposite.

    If you weren't being sarcastic, nm all this
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  10. #20
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    Re: It's my body verses it's my money...

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I sense some sarcasm..

    For the most part, we allow the government to operate in good faith, and it's usually not until it does something "serious" that we stand up as a people and shake it up. Take prohibition, for example. The government thought it would be better for us that alcohol be illegal (and they are probably right) but the American people put a stop to that.

    Just because we don't get involved (as a people) over minor disagreements doesn't mean we don't own our government vs the opposite.

    If you weren't being sarcastic, nm all this
    Prohibition is not the same as the government defining the use and purpose of money, though.

    Ultimately: as it stands right now - we share governance of our money with the government. They are able to tax us, define regulations that inact fines on us and our transactions, etc. They do not have to, though, listen to our complaints - the judicary, therefor, is where we take serious issues - such as how income tax was addressed decades in the past and other issues of private bank vs federal reserve, etc.

    If it was 100% our own: they wouldn't be able to tax us at all - and so on. It's a shared 'governance' - if we elected the governemnt and defined it's functions then that's what we decided was best.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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