View Poll Results: What in a nutshell will SCOTUS' decision be?

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  • Complete Striking of the law

    2 4.08%
  • Striking of the Mandate

    20 40.82%
  • Upholding of the law

    12 24.49%
  • Depends Entirely On What Justice Kennedy Ate For Breakfast

    15 30.61%
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Thread: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

  1. #61
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Why would those be the only choices?
    Because you cannot have a health care system where 1) people aren't required to buy health insurance, 2) insurers aren't allowed to discriminate based on preexisting conditions or genetic conditions, and 3) costs don't spiral out of control. At most, you can have two of the three. The reason costs would spiral out of control under such a system is that healthy people will buy less health insurance and unhealthy people will buy more. This will cause insurance costs to increase, which will lead to a further exodus of healthy people from the market. In the end, only the sickest of the sick would be insured, and insurance would be unaffordable for nearly everyone.

    The only ways to prevent this are either to require everyone to buy health insurance, or to allow insurers to discriminate based on preexisting/genetic conditions. The latter option is politically untenable since it would now involve actively CHANGING the law to allow that (as opposed to the pre-ACA system where simple inertia kept it around). So that leaves us with requiring everyone to buy insurance. And if the Supreme Court were to rule that you can't do that for private insurers, the only remaining policy solution is to do it for a public insurer.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-11-12 at 03:15 PM.
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  2. #62
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because you cannot have a health care system where 1) people aren't required to buy health insurance, 2) insurers aren't allowed to discriminate based on preexisting conditions or genetic conditions, and 3) costs don't spiral out of control.
    Sure you can. We had one for quite a long time.

    If you eliminate third-party payers (including a government single-payer) for all but catastrophic care, costs will drop.

    There's nothing written in stone that there MUST be health insurance.
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  3. #63
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Sure you can. We had one for quite a long time.
    Not really. We chose to forgo Options #2 and #3 for a long time. Insurers WERE allowed to discriminate based on preexisting conditions (prior to the ACA) and genetic conditions (prior to 1998), which kept sick people out of the market. Furthermore, our costs WERE spiraling out of control, that's why Americans pay more than twice as much per capita as anyone else in the world for their health care.

    If you eliminate third-party payers (including a government single-payer) for all but catastrophic care, costs will drop.
    I would support transitioning to a more catastrophic coverage system. But many of the same people who are now arguing that the individual mandate is unconstitutional would be screaming bloody murder if the government tried to eliminate the entire non-catastrophic health insurance industry.

    There's nothing written in stone that there MUST be health insurance.
    There at least needs to be catastrophic health insurance for everyone, or else a lot of the same problems with our current system will still exist.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-11-12 at 04:05 PM.
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  4. #64
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    It's not as simple as you make it out to be, the objection is to the federal government being able to force private insurance companies to alter their product line and/or coverage at the governments whim. Forcibly removing the option for a citizen to choose the private option he feels best meets his needs is another step in the wrong direction.
    You cannot have it both ways and have a system of health insurance that works for the entire nation.

    Get rid of the private companies who add a profit percentage without providing anything in return in terms of service of product.
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You cannot have it both ways and have a system of health insurance that works for the entire nation.

    Get rid of the private companies who add a profit percentage without providing anything in return in terms of service of product.
    The sad part is a company can do something and make a profit at a lower cost and higher efficiency level than government can do and lose money in the process.

  6. #66
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You cannot have it both ways and have a system of health insurance that works for the entire nation.

    Get rid of the private companies who add a profit percentage without providing anything in return in terms of service of product.

    no thanks, I don't want socialism

  7. #67
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    I would hope, that they will strike it down in whole, but that's unlikely to happen.
    The Constitution is no longer the supreme law of the land, if it were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    The health care law is poorly designed, gives to much power to the executive branch and plainly, shouldn't exist.
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I am against obama care and I am sure the supremes will invalidate it but I will give the Dem's credit for making health care an issue. The cost of health care is absolutely through the roof and the insurance premiums reflect this. Reps need to present an alternative plan that will stop and even reverse the skyrocketing cost of wellness in this country, I haven't see one yet that does anything but nibble around the edges.
    By Introducing Market Based Reforms, Republican Governor Mitch Daniels LOWERED Costs By 11%

    By Introducing Market Based Reform, Medicare Part D Has Come In 42% Under Projected Costs Due To Holding Down Price Inflation



    Ryan's proposed Medicare reform bill basically puts the entire program on a similar basis.

  9. #69
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    Re: What Will SCOTUS Decide About Obamacare?

    I don't know much about Mitch Daniels' reforms, but Medicare Part D has come in below projected costs due to one factor: A dearth of innovation in the pharmaceutical industry for the last few years. The projected costs were made based on assumptions that new-and-improved drugs were in the pipeline to replace drugs whose patents would soon expire. That didn't turn out to be the case...a lot of the new-and-improved drugs turned out to be flops, and the patents for older drugs expired. Medicare Part D came in below costs primarily because patients started using generic drugs to a much greater degree than was originally projected.

    Although the slowdown in pharmaceutical innovation in the last few years isn't the fault of Medicare Part D, it's not necessarily something to celebrate.
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