View Poll Results: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

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  • Yes

    23 39.66%
  • No

    26 44.83%
  • More than currently allowed, but not freely

    2 3.45%
  • Less than currently allowed

    7 12.07%
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Thread: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It doesn't make me mad - but it also wouldn't make me mad if he were punished, either, because I can certainly see the other side of it. If Command decides it's within the bounds of the UCMJ then I'm good with that. I would never presume to judge the military when it comes to their areas of expertise. (And you will often see this in my posts. For example, I'm for gay rights but I did not rail against the military's DADT policy nor their policies before and after it.)

    On the other hand it could be the military hasn't figured out what to do with the Internet, yet, and they've got plenty of company with the Courts and Congress standing next to them.
    The military actually handles the internet rather well. Its not the forum the Marine in question used that is under the microscope, its his statements. He could have said it at a social function or just at work and been reprimanded for it. The UCMJ is very extensive and has the "catch all" article, 134. The bad part, or good part depending on who you talk to, is that the military justice system is very rank and status biased. If a military judge see's that a full bird Colonel wrote up a Sergeant for something, he tends to sway towards the senior ranking servicemember. Its natural for anyone in the military to believe the senior man over the junior man simply because you would think the senior man has a more vested interest in the overall good for their respective branch of service.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  2. #82
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    I don't like my civillian bosshole, but you won't see me posting that I'm not going to do what he tells me to do on Facebook.
    Your civilian "bosshole" can't send you to a far away land to kill people in the name of your organization either. That's a little different than your boss telling you to put your TPS Report cover sheet on next time.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  3. #83
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The military actually handles the internet rather well. Its not the forum the Marine in question used that is under the microscope, its his statements. He could have said it at a social function or just at work and been reprimanded for it. The UCMJ is very extensive and has the "catch all" article, 134. The bad part, or good part depending on who you talk to, is that the military justice system is very rank and status biased. If a military judge see's that a full bird Colonel wrote up a Sergeant for something, he tends to sway towards the senior ranking servicemember. Its natural for anyone in the military to believe the senior man over the junior man simply because you would think the senior man has a more vested interest in the overall good for their respective branch of service.
    Actually, they're just learning to handle the internet well right now. It has only been in the last year or so that they have included watching what you put on the internet as a formal part of their annual information awareness training. (We just had that training Saturday, btw.) And it includes watching what you put up on social networking sites, including things that could affect the mission (pics, info, etc.). There are other trainings that include social networking sites in them that address what you can and cannot post that could affect a servicemember's own career, and that does include pics of them doing illegal (or at least against the UCMJ) activities and posting comments that would be considered "disrespecting the chain of command".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #84
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    I don't like my civillian bosshole, but you won't see me posting that I'm not going to do what he tells me to do on Facebook.
    Fight the power, baby. Next time he tells you to do something you dont like just look him right square in the eyes and tell him hell no...you've cleaned your last fryer!!!

    You CAN say that on Facebook. You may choose not to but you have the freedom to do so without repercussion.

  5. #85
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Disclaimer #1: I have not read the entire thread, only about 10 posts.

    Disclaimer #2: IMO, this question does not fit neatly in a box with a bow on top. The answer is more complex.

    My answer is that, although it counters most everything I believe in regarding free speech, military members forfeit their right to speak freely politically while they are military members. The mission, even in peace time, is too critical to be upended by some asshat with a greivence to air.

    Disclaimer #3: This does not mean blind adherence to dumbass policy, btw.

  6. #86
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, they're just learning to handle the internet well right now. It has only been in the last year or so that they have included watching what you put on the internet as a formal part of their annual information awareness training. (We just had that training Saturday, btw.) And it includes watching what you put up on social networking sites, including things that could affect the mission (pics, info, etc.). There are other trainings that include social networking sites in them that address what you can and cannot post that could affect a servicemember's own career, and that does include pics of them doing illegal (or at least against the UCMJ) activities and posting comments that would be considered "disrespecting the chain of command".
    So, I take it you're a reservist since you came in for annual training on Saturday. The active duty side has been doing training on this a lot longer than the last year. It is a part of the "Information Awareness" training on MarineNet. I don't know what the Navy equivalent to MarineNet is, but we've been doing it awhile. If I remember correctly, about 3 years.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #87
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So, I take it you're a reservist since you came in for annual training on Saturday. The active duty side has been doing training on this a lot longer than the last year. It is a part of the "Information Awareness" training on MarineNet. I don't know what the Navy equivalent to MarineNet is, but we've been doing it awhile. If I remember correctly, about 3 years.
    I've only been a reservist since '08 when I got off active duty, which I was on for almost 10 years. I know what training is required and what training we had changed in the last few years. I notice things like that. Navy uses NKO. We had ours changed about a year and a half ago, still not that long overall, considering we have been using the internet for almost 10 years now for social networking.

    Oh, and I didn't do "annual training" on Saturday. I had drill this past weekend (you know, the one weekend a month thing). I start AT in about 2 weeks, which will be 3 weeks working in the shipyard.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 03-12-12 at 09:59 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #88
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I've only been a reservist since '08 when I got off active duty, which I was on for almost 10 years. I know what training is required and what training we had changed in the last few years. I notice things like that. Navy uses NKO. We had ours changed about a year and a half ago, still not that long overall, considering we have been using the internet for almost 10 years now for social networking.

    Oh, and I didn't do "annual training" on Saturday. I had drill this past weekend (you know, the one weekend a month thing). I start AT in about 2 weeks, which will be 3 weeks working in the shipyard.
    I knew what you meant by annual training. I work on the I&I staff of a reserve Marine unit right now. You guys do 3 weeks of AT?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #89
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I knew what you meant by annual training. I work on the I&I staff of a reserve Marine unit right now. You guys do 3 weeks of AT?
    Personnel in my unit are required to do at least 3 weeks of AT to support one of the Navy shipyards. We go individually to whatever shop needs each of our particular skills.

    Most other Navy units go on AT as a unit.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #90
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No they are not. They are still people.
    I take it you have never actually read the contract people have to sign in order to enter military service. It states in no uncertain terms that once you sign your body becomes property of the military - moreover, this condition is permanent. They will always own you and can exercise that ownership (within prescribed parameters) when they see fit.

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