View Poll Results: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

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  • Yes

    23 39.66%
  • No

    26 44.83%
  • More than currently allowed, but not freely

    2 3.45%
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    7 12.07%
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Thread: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    You would follow that order? To take fellow servicemen into custody for burning a Quran?
    The issue is not whether or not you would take someone into custody. The issue is a marine who was trying to encourage troops to disobey their commander in chief. I seriously doubt the Koran burnings had anything to do with that marine posting a face book page implying that troops should no obey their commander in chief. Most likely it is some birther-tard nonsense why he originally posted he wouldn't obey the president.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Depends on where you exercise that freedom of speech.

    U.S. General Fired For Verbal Attack On Afghan Leader | Fox News

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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    LOL! You're a regular freedom figher huh?. I mean seriously, how do you do it? You make two points that counter each other then try to turn it on me and say I am "censoring" you. Like I can censor Debate Politics or something. You stay classy Mickey Shane.
    Attachment 67123823
    If you were schizophrenic you'd understand. It's not the 'Marine' part that I don't like. It's the rest of your name. Tpartiers have no reasoning skills. It's all about: don't tread on ME. What about other people?

    The dude in the OP was quick to change his stance when confronted with reprimand. He went directly from not obeying orders from the CiC to not obeying unlawful orders. That Cat's a Birther. He just won't admit it. Birthers take up valuable space and resources that could be used for intelligent people.

    Anyway, it's a simple idea that those who wear the uniforms of the US military need to change clothes before extolling their political beliefs. His problem was that he needed to be a soldier in order to say that he wasn't going to follow orders. That statement means that he's not a good soldier.
    Social website media will continue to be the downfall of many a person that should have looked before they leaped. Ergo the pissing on the dead video.

    Just being classy means don't fall into that trap. How many super drunk posts online have caused good people to not get the job? Now I hear that if you're like me and your real name doesn't Google, you won't get the job either. George Orwell was a quarter century premature. It's here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  4. #74
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    the military and it's members should , in it's duties and missions, be as apolitical as humanly possible....we do not want the military mixed up in politics.

    military members are never "off duty".. that means they get regulated to an extend that civilians do not.

    out of uniform, military members are generally free to say what they like and do what they like... but there are some lines that they cannot cross ( because of the requirement to be an apolitical entity)

  5. #75
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    If you were schizophrenic you'd understand. It's not the 'Marine' part that I don't like. It's the rest of your name. Tpartiers have no reasoning skills. It's all about: don't tread on ME. What about other people?
    You obviously have no understanding of what the Tea Party is. The true Tea Party. Most of these spin offs are nothing more than a bunch of coat tail riders. The Tea Party stands for fiscal conservatism and INDIVIDUAL liberties. Obviously, "don't tread on ME" would fit that right? On the other hand, the country is turning into a class and group mindset. Everyone has to be grouped nice and neat into a category for the country to run right apparently. You have to be lower, middle, upper class, a certain minority, a certain voting block, a certain denomination, etc, etc. People are losing sight of the fact that this country wasn't built on that crap. It was built on rugged individuals that went as far as they could go on their own, then looked to their friends, family, and church to help. The friends, family, and church in turn, answered the call. A perfect example is here in Tennessee. Tornadoes came through and wiped out 77 homes. FEMA won't declare it a disaster area. Guess who's helping? The local community, the local churches. No one's waiting around for the gov't to do something for them. Nowadays, its not unusual for someone who can't make it on their own to immediately want a hand out or someone to do it for them. The Sandra Fluke incident is a perfect example. That's what the Tea Party stands for and I think most Americans can identify with that. Much like a lot of Americans can identify with what the original Occupiers stood for before their movement got hijacked by idealouges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    The dude in the OP was quick to change his stance when confronted with reprimand. He went directly from not obeying orders from the CiC to not obeying unlawful orders. That Cat's a Birther. He just won't admit it. Birthers take up valuable space and resources that could be used for intelligent people.
    If you read his comments in context, he was speaking of unlawful orders. So his statement that he's talking about unlawful orders wasn't a step back, but a clarification. Also, you prove my point that I made above. You feel the need to group him in with "birthers" simply because you think it fits. Not for anything he's said or done. There's a vast difference in disagreeing with Obama's policies and saying he wasn't born in the US. Your classification of him is merely convenient for you because you don't understand what he is saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Anyway, it's a simple idea that those who wear the uniforms of the US military need to change clothes before extolling their political beliefs. His problem was that he needed to be a soldier in order to say that he wasn't going to follow orders. That statement means that he's not a good soldier. Social website media will continue to be the downfall of many a person that should have looked before they leaped. Ergo the pissing on the dead video.
    I agree that we should not be able to speak publicly about politics while in uniform. I whole heartedly agree with you. However, his overall point about not following an unlawful order is a valid one. The defense "I was merely following orders" never works when something illegal has been done. Sure, the one giving the order is punished in a more severe manner but the individual who carried out the unlawful order is punished as well. A good example is the My Lai Massacre. Read up on it and you'll see. A person who refuses a unlawful order, in my opinion, is the epitomy of what makes our military better than any other. We can think as individuals (there's that word again) instead of having the zombie like mindset of a military like, for instance, Nazi Germany.
    My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Just being classy means don't fall into that trap. How many super drunk posts online have caused good people to not get the job? Now I hear that if you're like me and your real name doesn't Google, you won't get the job either. George Orwell was a quarter century premature. It's here.
    Whatever you say.........
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #76
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the military and it's members should , in it's duties and missions, be as apolitical as humanly possible....we do not want the military mixed up in politics.

    military members are never "off duty".. that means they get regulated to an extend that civilians do not.

    out of uniform, military members are generally free to say what they like and do what they like... but there are some lines that they cannot cross ( because of the requirement to be an apolitical entity)
    So do you think we shouldn't be able to vote then?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #77
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I agree that we should not be able to speak publicly about politics while in uniform. I whole heartedly agree with you.
    Which he violated as far as I'm concerned by using "Armed Forces" and "active-duty, eight-year Marine Corps veteran" on the same page. Armed Forces could be confusing and nebulous but certainly "active-duty, eight-year Marine Corps veteran" is perfectly clear and the two used together leads to an even bigger affect. He may as well have stood on stage in uniform and starting speaking.

    However, his overall point about not following an unlawful order is a valid one.
    And this needed to be addressed on a world stage because?? (And make no mistake, the Internet is a world stage.) If he has troops I'm sure he could have arranged a "training session" on unlawful orders and gotten his point across to them - and anyone else in the unit that wanted to hear - in a perfectly legitimate fashion. Otherwise, he could have discussed it at any gathering of his military friends/peers simply as an exercise in interpreting orders. No, I wasn't in the military but I was in government long enough to know there are many ways to get things done and still stay within the established rules, even if the letter of those rules don't allow it. If he's been in 8 years then he ought to know that, too.


    I am a big supporter of the military and those in uniform but there are some things you just don't do.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So do you think we shouldn't be able to vote then?
    I think if we all had to stand up in public, declare our occupation, then publicly vote their would be some issues, yes. But we don't have to do any of that so the question is moot.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-11-12 at 06:59 PM.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Which he violated as far as I'm concerned by using "Armed Forces" and "active-duty, eight-year Marine Corps veteran" on the same page. Armed Forces could be confusing and nebulous but certainly "active-duty, eight-year Marine Corps veteran" is perfectly clear and the two used together leads to an even bigger affect. He may as well have stood on stage in uniform and starting speaking.
    He may as well have? He didn't. He did nothing wrong, according to the UCMJ. If that makes you mad, get over it. He followed the rules. That's why the court martial they are thinking about starting on him will not stick. If you don't like what his Facebook page says, don't read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And this needed to be addressed on a world stage because?? (And make no mistake, the Internet is a world stage.) If he has troops I'm sure he could have arranged a "training session" on unlawful orders and gotten his point across to them - and anyone else in the unit that wanted to hear - in a perfectly legitimate fashion. Otherwise, he could have discussed it at any gathering of his military friends/peers simply as an exercise in interpreting orders. No, I wasn't in the military but I was in government long enough to know there are many ways to get things done and still stay within the established rules, even if the letter of those rules don't allow it. If he's been in 8 years then he ought to know that, too.
    Again, no one has to read his Facebook page. And, he is within the rules. As a member of the military, and the same branch as him, I know without a doubt he will be exonerated of any charge the Marine Corps tries to bring against him. He did nothing wrong and stayed within the parameters of the UCMJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I think if we all had to stand up in public, declare our occupation, then publicly vote their would be some issues, yes. But we don't have to do any of that so the question is moot.
    Agreed. Good point. I will cede that to you.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #79
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    He may as well have? He didn't. He did nothing wrong, according to the UCMJ. If that makes you mad, get over it. He followed the rules. That's why the court martial they are thinking about starting on him will not stick. If you don't like what his Facebook page says, don't read it.

    Again, no one has to read his Facebook page. And, he is within the rules. As a member of the military, and the same branch as him, I know without a doubt he will be exonerated of any charge the Marine Corps tries to bring against him. He did nothing wrong and stayed within the parameters of the UCMJ.
    It doesn't make me mad - but it also wouldn't make me mad if he were punished, either, because I can certainly see the other side of it. If Command decides it's within the bounds of the UCMJ then I'm good with that. I would never presume to judge the military when it comes to their areas of expertise. (And you will often see this in my posts. For example, I'm for gay rights but I did not rail against the military's DADT policy nor their policies before and after it.)

    On the other hand it could be the military hasn't figured out what to do with the Internet, yet, and they've got plenty of company with the Courts and Congress standing next to them.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-11-12 at 08:18 PM.
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    I don't like my civillian bosshole, but you won't see me posting that I'm not going to do what he tells me to do on Facebook.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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