View Poll Results: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

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  • Yes

    23 39.66%
  • No

    26 44.83%
  • More than currently allowed, but not freely

    2 3.45%
  • Less than currently allowed

    7 12.07%
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Thread: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    burning the quran is like burning the american flag,there is a way to burn it honoring it as a disabled piece,and there are ways to burn it showing hate.

    if someone said the proper way to destroy a flag was burning woud you throw it in a metal can and light it?the answer should be no,even though our flag is meant to be burned upon being unserviceable,it was meant to be burned in a flag burning ceremony to recognize that particuliar flag had served its time,salutes are rendered etc.im pretty sure the muslims feel the same way about their holy document,where burning is required but in a way that honors the wuran and not treats it like a piece of trash.
    1) They didn't know it was in the trash 2) They didn't throw it in the trash 3) The very people who "practice" the religion are the reason is was thrown away to begin with 4) There is a proper way for the American flag to be burned. However, when its burned in the streets of Oakland, I don't see the POTUS decrying it nor apologizing to the American people for it.
    I'm good with the POTUS explaining to the Afghani's that we didn't know it was there, it wasn't on purpose, it won't happen again. But apologizing was over the top, IMO. Hillary Clinton condemning them is ridiculous as well. The apologies should have been left to the theater commander and emissary to Afghanistan. They know the climate of the place, they know who to talk to, and most importantly they can go there in person to talk to them.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #62
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    I believe we should be able to share our opinions with certain common sense limitations. Those being

    1) we wouldn't want people to confuse Joe the infantry private's "let's kill em all" line of thinking with official military policy.
    2) does not violate operational security
    3) no subversion

    #3 is the kicker for some people.
    We can't have a functioning military if troops want to bail or refuse to follow orders because they disagree with the commander in chief ( excluding unlawful orders ).

  3. #63
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    SAN DIEGO (AP) — Marine Sgt. Gary Stein first started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots to encourage service members to exercise their free speech rights. Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.

    While Stein softened his statement to say he wouldn't follow "unlawful orders," military observers say he may have gone too far.

    The Marine Corps is now looking into whether he violated the military's rules prohibiting political statements by those in uniform and broke its guidelines on what troops can and cannot say on social media. Stein said his views are constitutionally protected.

    While troops have always expressed their views in private, Stein's case highlights the potential for their opinions to go global as tech-savvy service members post personal details, videos and pictures that can hurt the military's image at home and abroad..............

    The link provides the rest of the story.
    Also, the second link describes our rights as service members regarding free speech.
    Marine's Facebook page tests military rules - Yahoo! News
    Watch what you say: Speech limits under UCMJ - Military Law, Military Law Advice, Ask a Lawyer - Army Times
    1) If you are actively serving then you are duty bound to give honest opinions to those in your chain of command. However, if your commanding officers gives you orders that differ from your opinion then you are obligated to fulfill that order unless it is an illegal order.

    2) If you are actively serving and you are asked your honest opinion by someone outside the military then you should practice discretion in how you express your position.

    3) If you are actively serving and you are asked your political opinion you should keep it to yourself out of respect to the civilian authority over the military.

    4) If you've been discharged from service then you are free to express your opinion, political or otherwise, as you are no longer bound by the obligations of military service.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  4. #64
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    1) If you are actively serving then you are duty bound to give honest opinions to those in your chain of command. However, if your commanding officers gives you orders that differ from your opinion then you are obligated to fulfill that order unless it is an illegal order.
    Concur. Well put

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    2) If you are actively serving and you are asked your honest opinion by someone outside the military then you should practice discretion in how you express your position.
    Disagree. As long as I am not disrespectful to anyone, I see nothing wrong with telling someone what I think. Even if it doesn't toe the line with the higher ups. For instance, I would love to go into the wasteful spending that occurs in our military and the push back I get when I try to stop it.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    3) If you are actively serving and you are asked your political opinion you should keep it to yourself out of respect to the civilian authority over the military.
    Again, disagree. See above reason. In addition, if I can't give my opinion then I shouldn't be able to vote. If someone tries to take my right to vote, you're going to see one pissed of Marine.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    4) If you've been discharged from service then you are free to express your opinion, political or otherwise, as you are no longer bound by the obligations of military service.
    Concur again.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  5. #65
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    1) If you are actively serving then you are duty bound to give honest opinions to those in your chain of command. However, if your commanding officers gives you orders that differ from your opinion then you are obligated to fulfill that order unless it is an illegal order.

    2) If you are actively serving and you are asked your honest opinion by someone outside the military then you should practice discretion in how you express your position.

    3) If you are actively serving and you are asked your political opinion you should keep it to yourself out of respect to the civilian authority over the military.

    4) If you've been discharged from service then you are free to express your opinion, political or otherwise, as you are no longer bound by the obligations of military service.
    I dont buy off on 2 or 3. You still have your right to an opinion. It just depends on the circumstance and audience. I had no problem discussing things with peers (same rank) or seniors...but never down the stream. People in my squadrons could come talk to me, but if they were bitching about the CiC or mission, the response would be invariably the same..."I understand your frustration...thats the job...every four years you can decide if you dont like it are not willing to put up with it. In the meantime...saddle up and lets go to work."

  6. #66
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Well, if you could give **** how many Marines hate the POTUS, keep your mouth shut about the Marine Corps. If you don't give a ****, it shouldn't matter right? Your comment was "The Marine in question, by voicing his disdain for Obama has just soured my opinion of the USMC.". That doesn't sound like someone would could give a ****. That sounds like someone who shot off at the mouth, was called out on his illogical statement, and is now shooting off at the mouth again.
    In addition, you obviously didn't read anything very carefully because A) I never said a Marine burned the Quran. Notice service member is used repeatedly in my post. B) This is a direct quote from the story that is linked on the very first post on this thread.
    Stein said his statement was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.
    In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if those orders included detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.


    You sure you read the OP, my post's, or the links well? I think not.
    The Marine in the OP isn't the only one making the Corps look bad. He's got plenty of help from you. You want to censor my speech? Good luck with that one Bro. As long as I'm alive, I'll say whatever I want to say in spite of your tirade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  7. #67
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    SAN DIEGO (AP) — Marine Sgt. Gary Stein first started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots to encourage service members to exercise their free speech rights. Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.

    While Stein softened his statement to say he wouldn't follow "unlawful orders," military observers say he may have gone too far.

    The Marine Corps is now looking into whether he violated the military's rules prohibiting political statements by those in uniform and broke its guidelines on what troops can and cannot say on social media. Stein said his views are constitutionally protected.

    While troops have always expressed their views in private, Stein's case highlights the potential for their opinions to go global as tech-savvy service members post personal details, videos and pictures that can hurt the military's image at home and abroad..............

    The link provides the rest of the story.
    Also, the second link describes our rights as service members regarding free speech.
    Marine's Facebook page tests military rules - Yahoo! News
    Watch what you say: Speech limits under UCMJ - Military Law, Military Law Advice, Ask a Lawyer - Army Times
    If he is encouraging troops to not obey the comander in cheif then he should be thrown on the military.There is nothing politcal about that.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #68
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    The Marine in the OP isn't the only one making the Corps look bad. He's got plenty of help from you. You want to censor my speech? Good luck with that one Bro. As long as I'm alive, I'll say whatever I want to say in spite of your tirade.
    LOL! You're a regular freedom figher huh?. I mean seriously, how do you do it? You make two points that counter each other then try to turn it on me and say I am "censoring" you. Like I can censor Debate Politics or something. You stay classy Mickey Shane.
    Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?-imagescahey3kc-jpg
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #69
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If he is encouraging troops to not obey the comander in cheif then he should be thrown on the military.There is nothing politcal about that.
    You would follow that order? To take fellow servicemen into custody for burning a Quran?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #70
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont buy off on 2 or 3. You still have your right to an opinion. It just depends on the circumstance and audience. I had no problem discussing things with peers (same rank) or seniors...but never down the stream. People in my squadrons could come talk to me, but if they were bitching about the CiC or mission, the response would be invariably the same..."I understand your frustration...thats the job...every four years you can decide if you dont like it are not willing to put up with it. In the meantime...saddle up and lets go to work."
    I should have specified that in regards to 2 and 3 I meant expressing that opinion publicly, such as through Facebook or via a news interview or the like. I think that is different than offering an opinion in private.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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