View Poll Results: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

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  • Yes

    23 39.66%
  • No

    26 44.83%
  • More than currently allowed, but not freely

    2 3.45%
  • Less than currently allowed

    7 12.07%
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Thread: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    No order was given not to burn the Quran seeing as how it is a legal and proper way, according to the book itself, to dispose of it. I'm sure Marines you know did what they were told. Like I said though, we aren't automatons.
    I did hear that they may have been burning trash and didn't know that some inexpensive unrecognizable copies of Quran were in the trash then the they should not be in trouble. But, I've been scapegoated in the military.

  2. #52
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I understood, myself, that there was a standing order and it has been in effect for some time.
    Also, if command decided that it was done to upset the people that were being occupied, i.e. anything that would screw up the mission, they would be in trouble.
    I never heard such orders and I just returned from there last July. If this was the Bible, then yes, it would be an order that doesn't need to be given. But the Quran states that burning it is one of the proper ways to dispose of it. I totally understand your logic of "anything that would screw up a mission" though. Of course no order needs to be given to stop service members from, for instance, burning someones crops up. Thats a given. So I'm not trying to use the head in the sand argument. I really don't see anything wrong with what they did. The Qurans were defiled by practicers of its teachings. We simply disposed of them in the proper manner, even if the guys doing it didn't know they were even disposing of a Quran to begin with.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    As a member of the military you are free to speak your mind...as a citizen. As soon as you attach your service you are putting yourself at risk. Declaring your intent to disobey the CiC (even if you later amend it to say the UNLAWFUL orders)...in my book that opens you up to a world of hurt.

    The military isnt unique in this manner. Private employers may fire people as well for something like this.

  4. #54
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    We simply disposed of them in the proper manner, even if the guys doing it didn't know they were even disposing of a Quran to begin with.
    I think that the disposal of a Quran by the instructions in the Quran has to be done in a certain way buy the correct people, i.e. not US Marines.

  5. #55
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    As a member of the military you are free to speak your mind...as a citizen. As soon as you attach your service you are putting yourself at risk. Declaring your intent to disobey the CiC (even if you later amend it to say the UNLAWFUL orders)...in my book that opens you up to a world of hurt.

    The military isnt unique in this manner. Private employers may fire people as well for something like this.
    Are you up to date on the UCMJ? I'm not, but I did have to follow it for 4 years and I did come to understand the issue on this thread.

  6. #56
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I never heard such orders and I just returned from there last July. If this was the Bible, then yes, it would be an order that doesn't need to be given. But the Quran states that burning it is one of the proper ways to dispose of it. I totally understand your logic of "anything that would screw up a mission" though. Of course no order needs to be given to stop service members from, for instance, burning someones crops up. Thats a given. So I'm not trying to use the head in the sand argument. I really don't see anything wrong with what they did. The Qurans were defiled by practicers of its teachings. We simply disposed of them in the proper manner, even if the guys doing it didn't know they were even disposing of a Quran to begin with.
    You do realize that service members just recently burned Bibles too, right? In fact, they were ordered to do so by the chain of command.

    Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

    There is no order, assumed or official, to not burn Bibles.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    I have been in for almost 14 years. Military members are and should be allowed to express their views, political and otherwise, to a point. We are military members. We cannot wear our uniform or represent ourselves as speaking for the military. We cannot make comments that lead our chain of command to believe that we might disobey lawful orders because of our politics.

    You could say the guy misspoke, in the least. We have training now on what can be put on social networking sites and what can't. This is certainly one of those things that pops up on the "warning: think before you post this" radar.

    From what I understand, the guy isn't getting harshly punished for this. I don't even think he is getting NJP. It is likely counseling and a note in his record (unless there is some other issue we don't really know about). I have seen people punished for much less, including being a minute late to muster and calling a senior "jackass" or "jerk".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  8. #58
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You do realize that service members just recently burned Bibles too, right? In fact, they were ordered to do so by the chain of command.

    Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

    There is no order, assumed or official, to not burn Bibles.
    I was not aware of that. Of course, I'm not surprised there's not uproar either. Whatever, this country gets more jacked up everyday.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Are you up to date on the UCMJ? I'm not, but I did have to follow it for 4 years and I did come to understand the issue on this thread.
    I am as up to date as I need to be. I still work with the military and have two sons in the military. Facebook and Youtube has changed the world...I dont know exactly how the military views stating things today. I know for 20 years you could vote, engage in politics, and enjoy every right anyone else did as long as you didnt wear your uniform and present yourself as a member of the military...making it an issue. Its just very thin ice people skate when they do things like were mentioned in the OP.

  10. #60
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I never heard such orders and I just returned from there last July. If this was the Bible, then yes, it would be an order that doesn't need to be given. But the Quran states that burning it is one of the proper ways to dispose of it. I totally understand your logic of "anything that would screw up a mission" though. Of course no order needs to be given to stop service members from, for instance, burning someones crops up. Thats a given. So I'm not trying to use the head in the sand argument. I really don't see anything wrong with what they did. The Qurans were defiled by practicers of its teachings. We simply disposed of them in the proper manner, even if the guys doing it didn't know they were even disposing of a Quran to begin with.
    burning the quran is like burning the american flag,there is a way to burn it honoring it as a disabled piece,and there are ways to burn it showing hate.

    if someone said the proper way to destroy a flag was burning woud you throw it in a metal can and light it?the answer should be no,even though our flag is meant to be burned upon being unserviceable,it was meant to be burned in a flag burning ceremony to recognize that particuliar flag had served its time,salutes are rendered etc.im pretty sure the muslims feel the same way about their holy document,where burning is required but in a way that honors the wuran and not treats it like a piece of trash.

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