View Poll Results: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

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  • Yes

    23 39.66%
  • No

    26 44.83%
  • More than currently allowed, but not freely

    2 3.45%
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    7 12.07%
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Thread: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    [I]SAN DIEGO (AP)...

    Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.
    I smell Orly Taitz.


    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    ...NOT FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION-MILITARY USE ONLY. if that doesnt say how our government views soldiers nothing will.
    I cast 'dispel nonsense'.

    With basic pay, medical benefits, food, housing and the Gi Bill/College Fun pro-rated, dudes fresh out of highschool are doing 40k/year (well, that's what I was doing in '91, after the math). We are the best paid, best benefited, best treated medically, most technologically advanced military in the world. Perhaps you would also like to complain about the military budget being too high.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 03-09-12 at 04:07 AM.

  2. #42
    White trash on dope.
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    It's similar to me telling our drummer not to go political through the microphone on stage. He wanted to announce that Ron Paul had won a debate (which he didn't actually end up winning). I told him to never ever get political as a band member, because no matter what side you are on, you just lost half of our audience.

    The Marine in question, by voicing his disdain for Obama has just soured my opinion of the USMC. There's no need for that. I want to like the Marines and be in strong support of our mightiest soldiers. If they all hate Obama to a man, they need to keep it to themselves. Either keep your politics to yourself, or keep being a US Marine to yourself while giving political viewpoints.

    My opinion only applies to general public attention. Marine members of this message board are free to speak at will because it's a closed club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  3. #43
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Soldiers of any stamp using their position in any way, shape, or form to promote politics of any kind is simply dangerous. That can so easily lead to a long slippery slope that they simply don't let it get started at all because the consequences are too great. If you want the free speech rights of a civilian then make damn sure no one hearing your message knows you're military. In the case of Facebook I wouldn't even post a picture of yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Good question! On the facebook page, calling it "Armed Forces..." is probably going to have gone too far. Military personnel can express their own political opinions, but have to be clear that it is personal opinion and not the opinion of the service. Advocating not following orders for any reason in such a setting is also probably going to be inappropriate. In both cases, he really skirts close to the line.
    I'm sure using "Armed Forced" didn't help but part of his self-description also includes:
    ... and active-duty, eight-year Marine Corps veteran.
    It's obvious from both he's making an appeal partially based on his military standing. If he just wanted to express his views as a civilian neither of these phrases should be there.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-09-12 at 11:42 AM.
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  4. #44
    Haters gon' hate
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    It's similar to me telling our drummer not to go political through the microphone on stage. He wanted to announce that Ron Paul had won a debate (which he didn't actually end up winning). I told him to never ever get political as a band member, because no matter what side you are on, you just lost half of our audience.

    The Marine in question, by voicing his disdain for Obama has just soured my opinion of the USMC. There's no need for that. I want to like the Marines and be in strong support of our mightiest soldiers. If they all hate Obama to a man, they need to keep it to themselves. Either keep your politics to yourself, or keep being a US Marine to yourself while giving political viewpoints.

    My opinion only applies to general public attention. Marine members of this message board are free to speak at will because it's a closed club.
    So one Marine's opinion just soured your view of an entire organization? Wow, that's a pretty illogical view you have there. That would be equilvalent of me saying I hate all bands because you said that. In addition, you would be surprised how many military members do not like Obama. Very surprised. I don't base that off of polls or anything like that. I just base it off of what I've heard and what I've seen.
    Moving on, the issue in question is a valid one. The subject of this article states that if President Obama gave the order to arrest military service members for buring the Quran, he would refuse. A lot of you say that he is wrong for that. What if the operator of the Predator UAV that took out Anwar al-Awlaki would have refused his order? That is a very controversial order that was given and one that, I believe, could have been refused with good justification,
    We, as Marines, are not automatons with no brain. We have a concious, we know what is right and wrong, and we won't execute orders that are wrong. The Marine stated he would refuse an order to arrest fellow service members for burning a Quran. Where in the UCMJ is it illegal to burn a Quran? Nowhere. So what does that make it? AN UNLAWFUL ORDER. I don't care who gives the order, if its wrong, I'm not doing it. And not wrong by my standards. I'm talking wrong by legal standards.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So one Marine's opinion just soured your view of an entire organization? Wow, that's a pretty illogical view you have there. That would be equilvalent of me saying I hate all bands because you said that. In addition, you would be surprised how many military members do not like Obama. Very surprised. I don't base that off of polls or anything like that. I just base it off of what I've heard and what I've seen.
    Moving on, the issue in question is a valid one. The subject of this article states that if President Obama gave the order to arrest military service members for buring the Quran, he would refuse. A lot of you say that he is wrong for that. What if the operator of the Predator UAV that took out Anwar al-Awlaki would have refused his order? That is a very controversial order that was given and one that, I believe, could have been refused with good justification,
    We, as Marines, are not automatons with no brain. We have a concious, we know what is right and wrong, and we won't execute orders that are wrong. The Marine stated he would refuse an order to arrest fellow service members for burning a Quran. Where in the UCMJ is it illegal to burn a Quran? Nowhere. So what does that make it? AN UNLAWFUL ORDER. I don't care who gives the order, if its wrong, I'm not doing it. And not wrong by my standards. I'm talking wrong by legal standards.
    I read your OP carefully and I read both links. I did not see where the Marine in question said anything about arresting fellow Marines for burning the Koran.

    I thought those books were burned by the Army.

    EDIT: I could also give a **** about how many Marines hate the President. I have several (ex) Marine buddies that I hang out with. Politics just never comes up.
    Last edited by d0gbreath; 03-09-12 at 05:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  6. #46
    Haters gon' hate
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    I read your OP carefully and I read both links. I did not see where the Marine in question said anything about arresting fellow Marines for burning the Koran.

    I thought those books were burned by the Army.

    EDIT: I could also give a **** about how many Marines hate the President. I have several (ex) Marine buddies that I hang out with. Politics just never comes up.
    Well, if you could give **** how many Marines hate the POTUS, keep your mouth shut about the Marine Corps. If you don't give a ****, it shouldn't matter right? Your comment was "The Marine in question, by voicing his disdain for Obama has just soured my opinion of the USMC.". That doesn't sound like someone would could give a ****. That sounds like someone who shot off at the mouth, was called out on his illogical statement, and is now shooting off at the mouth again.
    In addition, you obviously didn't read anything very carefully because A) I never said a Marine burned the Quran. Notice service member is used repeatedly in my post. B) This is a direct quote from the story that is linked on the very first post on this thread.
    Stein said his statement was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.
    In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if those orders included detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.


    You sure you read the OP, my post's, or the links well? I think not.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #47
    OWL Forever
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    They should be free to express anything as any other citizen is allowed.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    .... The Marine stated he would refuse an order to arrest fellow service members for burning a Quran. Where in the UCMJ is it illegal to burn a Quran? Nowhere. So what does that make it? AN UNLAWFUL ORDER. I don't care who gives the order, if its wrong, I'm not doing it. And not wrong by my standards. I'm talking wrong by legal standards.
    I was in the USAF from '68 to '72. If you were given an order to not burn any Quran, on duty or off, the order is lawful. If you did burn a Quran and nothing happened you could receive nonjudicial punishment, e.g. no leave, Class A Pass taken, etc. But if something happened because of the burning you could end up in the brig for years. It is this way and it has to be this way.

    BTY, I did share facilities w/ Marines several times. The Marines were the most loyal and indoctrinated service. They did what they were told more than the USAF, Army or Navy.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 03-09-12 at 06:45 PM.

  9. #49
    Haters gon' hate
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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I was in the USAF from '68 to '72. If you were given an order to not burn any Quran, on duty or off, the order is lawful. If you did burn a Quran and nothing happened you could receive nonjudicial punishment, e.g. no leave, Class A Pass taken, etc. But if something happened because of the burning you could end up in the brig for years. It is this way and it has to be this way.

    BTY, I did share facilities w/ Marines several times. The Marines were the most loyal and indoctrinated service. They did what they were told more than the USAF, Army or Navy.
    No order was given not to burn the Quran seeing as how it is a legal and proper way, according to the book itself, to dispose of it. I'm sure Marines you know did what they were told. Like I said though, we aren't automatons.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #50
    Professor

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    Re: Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    No order was given not to burn the Quran seeing as how it is a legal and proper way, according to the book itself, to dispose of it. I'm sure Marines you know did what they were told. Like I said though, we aren't automatons.
    I understood, myself, that there was a standing order and it has been in effect for some time.
    Also, if command decided that it was done to upset the people that were being occupied, i.e. anything that would screw up the mission, they would be in trouble.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 03-09-12 at 06:53 PM.

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