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Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay?

Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay?

  • Total voters
    41
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
I have no desire to restrict anyone who is a legal citizen from government participation. My beef is people who don't pay any federal income tax wanting those who do pay federal income taxes to pay more.
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Actually, your stated beef was: "Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay?" You seemed to define "dictate" to include such actions as calling, writing to, and confronting one's elected officials. The whole point of the poll was to ask if those who do not pay Federal income taxes have a right to do such things.

So, I'll ask again: How, legally, would you differentiate between people writing to their representatives on subjects you approve of and writing to their representatives on tax policy, and how would you reconcile such a law with the first amendment?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

TurtleDude said:
The real solution is a tax system that does not allow such activity. IE a flat income tax where everyone pays the same rate or better yet a consumption tax
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Or if you even want to keep it "progressive", one in which there is a single base rate that can change...but each bracket has a set % increase over the base that can't be change.

Essentially a system where you can't increase, or decrease, the taxes of only a few brackets. You either do it to all of them or to none of them.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
I have no desire to restrict anyone who is a legal citizen from government participation. My beef is people who don't pay any federal income tax wanting those who do pay federal income taxes to pay more.
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Is your position just about taxes or does it extend to other government influence, for example heterosexuals wanting homosexuals to live a certain way, or men deciding on issues affecting women's health or contraception? I mean if you don't think those who pay no federal income tax should have a say in how much that tax is, should those who aren't gay be deciding how gay people should live?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay? Seems to be a fair question. Seeing how 50% of American households pay no federal income taxes is it fair for these people to demand that others who do pay income taxes pay more?
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Frankly, this is the most obvious reason that we should never have started social welfare programs of any type, including SS and Medicare. This has become a divisive point in the voting population, because we no longer vote for what we believe would be the most beneficial for all the population, but many people vote based on personal greed. Iow- they vote for the politicians who promise to take from one to give to the other.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Wiseone said:
Is your position just about taxes or does it extend to other government influence, for example heterosexuals wanting homosexuals to live a certain way, or men deciding on issues affecting women's health or contraception? I mean if you don't think those who pay no federal income tax should have a say in how much that tax is, should those who aren't gay be deciding how gay people should live?
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It seems like that thinking should also extend to women and abortions.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

lizzie said:
Frankly, this is the most obvious reason that we should never have started social welfare programs of any type, including SS and Medicare. This has become a divisive point in the voting population, because we no longer vote for what we believe would be the most beneficial for all the population, but many people vote based on personal greed. Iow- they vote for the politicians who promise to take from one to give to the other.
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I disagree. Many people believe these programs are the most beneficial for all the popualtion. Voting for them is voting for what is most beneficial for all the populace.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Boo Radley said:
I disagree. Many people believe these programs are the most beneficial for all the popualtion. Voting for them is voting for what is most beneficial for all the populace.
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They can believe whatever they want, but they are going to break us eventually. Somehow, I doubt there will be many believers at that point.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

lizzie said:
They can believe whatever they want, but they are going to break us eventually. Somehow, I doubt there will be many believers at that point.
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No, needless war and a reluctance to pay for what we use is going to break us. Not to mention constantly favoring the wealthy and business over working people.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

In furtherance of proving the False premise of the opening post..
even though near 3/4's (much less 50%) of the country want the 'millionaires tax' (much less everyone else's taxes) it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Washington is a place where money/Lobbies talk and ordinary citizens walk.
 
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lizzie said:
Frankly, this is the most obvious reason that we should never have started social welfare programs of any type, including SS and Medicare. This has become a divisive point in the voting population, because we no longer vote for what we believe would be the most beneficial for all the population, but many people vote based on personal greed. Iow- they vote for the politicians who promise to take from one to give to the other.
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You honestly dont believe that it started with social welfare do you

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

mbig said:
In furtherance of proving the False premise of the opening post..
even though near 3/4's (much less 50%) of the country want the 'millionaires tax' (much less everyone else's taxes) it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Washington is a place where money/Lobbies talk and ordinary citizens walk.
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wow , lots of people want others to pay more taxes so they don't have to

that's really profound

and it seems to be your main motivation-make other people pay for the stuff you want from government

Bravo Foxtrot Delta
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

TurtleDude said:
wow , lots of people want others to pay more taxes so they don't have to
that's really profound
and it seems to be your main motivation-make other people pay for the stuff you want from government

Bravo Foxtrot Delta
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No, you missed the point in favor of partisanship and your default mode.

My point was NOT that alot of people want millionaires to pay more, just that even at 75%, much less, 50%, they can't even achieve it against a tiny minority, much less all 'others'. Your partisanship as always, has outstripped your reason.

And btw, just how many times now have you made basically the same "you just want to soak the rich" post as above? 10,000? 20,000?
As a 'high power, big money attorney', don't you t!re of spending your nights making the same post 30 times? (as well as 30 more)
Mebbe stick to guns and stale 1970s tunes.
 
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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Boo Radley said:
No, needless war and a reluctance to pay for what we use is going to break us. Not to mention constantly favoring the wealthy and business over working people.
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From the 2011 budget- percentages of budget spent per program type:
Defense/security 20%
Social security program 20%
Medicare/Medicaid/ Chps 21%
Safety Net Programs 14%

It's prety obvious where the majority of the money is going. (and it's going to get worse because of our changing demographics).
 
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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

lizzie said:
From the 2011 budget- percentages of budget spent per program type:
Defense/security 20%
Social security program 20%
Medicare/Medicaid/ Chps 21%
Safety Net Programs 14%

It's prety obvious where the majority of the money is going.
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Birth control?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

lizzie said:
Frankly, this is the most obvious reason that we should never have started social welfare programs of any type, including SS and Medicare. This has become a divisive point in the voting population, because we no longer vote for what we believe would be the most beneficial for all the population, but many people vote based on personal greed. Iow- they vote for the politicians who promise to take from one to give to the other.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.” — source unknown, but often attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler, who lived from 1747 to 1813​


Do we not see sure signs of the imminence of the disaster predicted in this quote? We're at a point, now, when nearly half of all households do not pay any federal income tax; with many of these households (probably a solid majority) being dependent on government handouts. A growing voter base with no motive to support fiscal restraint or responsibility on the part of government, but instead to support increasing government handouts to themselves, to be paid for by increasing taxes on the shrinking base of productive voters.

Nearly half of all households. We are very close to a disastrous tipping point. What will happen when this becomes more than half?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Boo Radley said:
No, needless war and a reluctance to pay for what we use is going to break us. Not to mention constantly favoring the wealthy and business over working people.
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It is working people who are being forced to bear the increasing cost of all these government handouts to the unproductive. Liberals are fond of calling for more taxes on “The Rich”, but only the most gullible and foolish of working-class citizens truly expect that the burden of this increased taxing and spending will not end up falling squarely on them, rather than on the mythical, hated “The Rich”.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Bob Blaylock said:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.” — source unknown, but often attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler, who lived from 1747 to 1813​


Do we not see sure signs of the imminence of the disaster predicted in this quote? We're at a point, now, when nearly half of all households do not pay any federal income tax; with many of these households (probably a solid majority) being dependent on government handouts. A growing voter base with no motive to support fiscal restraint or responsibility on the part of government, but instead to support increasing government handouts to themselves, to be paid for by increasing taxes on the shrinking base of productive voters.

Nearly half of all households. We are very close to a disastrous tipping point. What will happen when this becomes more than half?
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Educate yourself: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html Those who don't pay Federal income tax still pay all sorts of other taxes, and you are making a wild assumption that the majority of them are dependent on government handouts, that's a pretty big thing to say and you're just assuming it.

Here you can see a good example of how those 48% break down Why Do Some People Pay No Federal Income Tax? - Forbes

And remember that much of this tax law is a recently phenomenon created by both the Bush and Obama presidencies as part of their tax cuts and stimulus, I mean we can't blame someone who works a steady job has been earning roughly the same over the last several years but a few years ago the government decided to give them a tax break? Are we going to blame them for suddenly being a free loader when all thats changed is the tax law, not their income or their independence? Have they suddenly gone from being productive to unproductive?

Hell on that topic I thought tax breaks were a Republican cornerstone, shouldn't less people paying less taxes be a GOOD thing? I thought that's why those tax cuts were created?
 
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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Yet again, a dishonest and false narrative is being created by focusing narrowly upon a single tax - the federal income tax - while ignoring all the other taxes Americans pay. Thanks to Wiseone for the post above with the link and data.

We all know why this is being done but the warriors of the right persist in their cause celebre going full steam ahead. Now it is voting that is in their crosshairs. For shame.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Bob Blaylock said:
It is working people who are being forced to bear the increasing cost of all these government handouts to the unproductive. Liberals are fond of calling for more taxes on “The Rich”, but only the most gullible and foolish of working-class citizens truly expect that the burden of this increased taxing and spending will not end up falling squarely on them, rather than on the mythical, hated “The Rich”.
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Nonsense. This is the lie some are trying to convince us of, but it isn't the case. It's more than taxes. It ranges from taxes to corporate welfare to laws hindering workers unions and favoring business. And you can see this without "HATING" anyone.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay? Seems to be a fair question. Seeing how 50% of American households pay no federal income taxes is it fair for these people to demand that others who do pay income taxes pay more? It always amuses me when people piss bitch and moan about the rich using the tax system to pay as low as possible of a income tax rate when many of these same people use that same tax system to not pay any federal income taxes and to sometimes get back extra.
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That's what we are missing a dictator...ah, no. Pretty slippery slope and don't think that we are in need of dictatorship style of government.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

fatimasm.jpg
Thunder said:
these people don't dictate anything. unless you're suggesting that such folks should lose the right to vote in Federal elections, which would be very unAmerican.
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Our founding fathers tried to protect our country from ignorant voters and vote-buying corruption by saying citizens had to have "skin in the game" to be allowed to vote. Only successful people were allowed to vote. (That would be today's definition of the EVIL RICH.)

"At the time of the first Presidential election in 1789, only 6 percent of the population–white, male property owners–was eligible to vote."

Charters of Freedom - The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights

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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Jack Webb said:
View attachment 67123531

Our founding fathers tried to protect our country from ignorant voters and vote-buying corruption by saying citizens had to have "skin in the game" to be allowed to vote. Only successful people were allowed to vote. (That would be today's definition of the EVIL RICH.)

"At the time of the first Presidential election in 1789, only 6 percent of the population–white, male property owners–was eligible to vote."

Charters of Freedom - The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights

View attachment 67123532
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Not all of the foundering fathers wanted the electorate so limited. Nor do I really think "skin in the game" was part of there reasoning. Instead, they merely believe only white male landholders were superior. Others not so much. The world all men are created equal were fought for, and what opened the door to later equal rights legislation.

True, the entire system was set up to prevent majorities being oppressive. And yes, it did stop a poor majority voting to take ALL MONEY from the wealthy. The idea was to have taxation with representation and not to eliminate all taxes.

Our vote, the vote or the people, was to be directly linked to our representatives who would go to congress and fight for us. The president was never meant to be elected by popular vote. That too is true.

BTW, I'm a serious Webb fan. ;)
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Jack Webb said:
Our founding fathers tried to protect our country from ignorant voters and vote-buying corruption by saying citizens had to have "skin in the game" to be allowed to vote. Only successful people were allowed to vote. (That would be today's definition of the EVIL RICH.)
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They were trying to protect their own interests and the interests of people like them. That's why they left out the people who were property (i.e. the dark of skin) and the people who were one step above property (i.e. they with the vagina).

Can we please, please stop romanticizing what the founders did and just be objective about it for a change? Yes, they were very smart, but they are not worthy of blind reverence.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

TacticalEvilDan said:
They were trying to protect their own interests and the interests of people like them. That's why they left out the people who were property (i.e. the dark of skin) and the people who were one step above property (i.e. they with the vagina).

Can we please, please stop romanticizing what the founders did and just be objective about it for a change? Yes, they were very smart, but they are not worthy of blind reverence.
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I have to agree with this. For all the noble rhetoric, and yes even some great ideals mixed in, their actions in some areas spoke louder than words... even for the time.
 
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