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Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay?

Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay?

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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

tessaesque said:
I'm assuming I'm on ignore, so perhaps somebody else can help me out here.

What was Ramen disagreeing with from my post, exactly? I'm not even sure how his point relates to the one I made.
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I can't speak to what Ramen was thinking or what he meant, but my observation is that he misunderstood what you meant in your post. One cannot legitimately disagree with something that was misunderstood in the first place. His posts are usually interesting and on point, so that's what I base my speculation upon.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

TacticalEvilDan said:
Here's my best shot at an abridged transcript:

tessaesque: I don't think it's okay to ask someone who makes more money than I do to pay still more tax money to support services I use, especially since my tax burden isn't too heavy and I still have room for upward mobility.

iliveonramen: Yeah, well, let's see how you do without government services for a day!

tessaesque: I'm not saying I want to do without government services, just that I don't feel right about asking someone better off than me to pay more for the services I use when my tax burden isn't too heavy.

iliveonramen: But pretty much everybody uses more in services than they pay in taxes! So do you want to give up say over how those taxes are spent?!

tessaesque: No, I'm just saying that the solution to services getting more expensive isn't to tax wealthy people more to pay the difference.

iliveonramen: Blarg!

/transcript


Does that help?
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Well at least I'm not the only one who understood it that way! Also got a good LOL out of your translation.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

DiAnna said:
I can't speak to what Ramen was thinking or what he meant, but my observation is that he misunderstood what you meant in your post. One cannot legitimately disagree with something that was misunderstood in the first place. His posts are usually interesting and on point, so that's what I base my speculation upon.
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That's what I was trying to get to with him/her, but I was rushed through my last post to him and then DP went down for me for like 2 hours. Not a fan of being on ignore, but I can kind of understand his frustration.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

tessaesque said:
Well at least I'm not the only one who understood it that way! Also got a good LOL out of your translation.
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Drat, and I was trying to be serious.

That was the first time I did one of those without trying to make fun of someone.

:mrgreen:
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

They have a "right" to do that in so much that they are citizens and thus have the right to speak their mind regarding their political views though voting, letters to their congressman, etc.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

I think the question is not as simple as it looks. There are many people who are retired, and on pensions,
who paid plenty, but do not currently pay income tax.
It does bring up a good question, about a possible conflict of interest from house members
who a high percentage of their constituency is receiving some form of non-retiree public assistance.
I guess you could draw congressional boundaries, based on the median income in the state,
instead of the political party in charge of the state house.
(I realize that gerrymandering has become a high art form, but it was never good art.)
 
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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

TacticalEvilDan said:
False dilemma. The electorate doesn't get to dictate anything. The electorate gets to elect people they think will represent their interests, they tell those elected officials what they want, and then those officials have to engage in a certain amount of haggling or mud-wrestling in order to get it.

I'll care about poor folks making demands regarding the tax brackets of the wealthy after we've fixed the system so that money doesn't buy you access to the government. It's a little silly to complain about people getting what they want because by voting for the person who will get it for them while we continue to have a system that amounts to wink-wink-nod-nod bribery.
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Precisely
It's another one of those ABUSES of polls in that the premise is False.
Another "when did you stop beating your wife" question.
People in the bottom half generally have zip influence compared to just a handful of, ie, 'Steve Forbes'.

If anyone has access/'dictation' weight beyond their number in the electorate.. it's the rich.
We are Near Historic/Centurial LOWS on Top Marginal Income Tax Rates.. AND on Cap Gains/Divs taxes on which the rich pay most of their 15% Taxes.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/economics/90108-truth-can-afford-pay-taxes.html#post1059220592
So those ostensibly doing the 'dictating' aren't doing nearly as well as the top few percent in controlling Tax rates.. are they.

Any attempt to Reverse the Class Warfare started 30 years ago by Reagan and Won/given the coup de grace by Bush with his near Halving of Cap Gains/Divs and gutting of the Estate tax, is Absurdly called 'Class Wafare' (now "dictating") by people who have ZERO economic history. And we're not even talking ancient history.
If you do know the history, strings like this are mind-blowing partisan hackery.

See http://www.debatepolitics.com/economics/90108-truth-can-afford-pay-taxes.html for a general and numerical discussion of this issue.
 
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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Voting cannot - by the US Constitution - be conneted to any payment, tax or fee. And it should never be considered. Really bad idea.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

The real solution is a tax system that does not allow such activity. IE a flat income tax where everyone pays the same rate or better yet a consumption tax
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay? Seems to be a fair question. Seeing how 50% of American households pay no federal income taxes is it fair for these people to demand that others who do pay income taxes pay more? It always amuses me when people piss bitch and moan about the rich using the tax system to pay as low as possible of a income tax rate when many of these same people use that same tax system to not pay any federal income taxes and to sometimes get back extra.
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It always amuses me when a sizable fraction of those bitching about OTHER people not paying federal income taxes are probably in the same boat themselves, and don't even realize it. I've gotta hand it to Republicans, they've done a great job in getting people outraged that half of the population doesn't pay taxes...and everyone assumes that that half refers to someone else.

Anyway, yes, of course other people have a right to influence tax policy, as it affects everyone. Everyone pays SOME taxes, and everyone benefits from the government in some way, so everyone has a stake in the game. And many of the people who pay the least were in some way disadvantaged, so they have every right to want their own kids to not have similar disadvantages growing up.
 
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Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Wiseone said:
I would also like to point out that as service members, like me and Jamesrage, we actually cost more in tax dollars than we generate in tax dollars what in our salaries, medical benefits, training, equipment, etc. Of course we perform a service and work for these benefits, but there's no denying that we cost more in federal dollars than we generate dollars for the government.
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The value of the WW2 soldier was priceless, not a mercy of doubt..
Today, to be blunt and tactless, IMO, its one huge waste.
We should bring home ALL of our fighting men and honor them and provide them with a modern GI bill.
We must build our nation, not the world...in other words, not fighting men, but building men...
WW2 is over.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
They dictate by calling,writing,emailing and faxing their elected representatives.
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Why do you hate the first amendment?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

megaprogman said:
Why do you hate the first amendment?
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This isn't about the 1st amendment, its about whether or not people who pay no federal income tax have any business demanding that those who do pay should pay more. It looks like 9 people said no and 13 said yes.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
This isn't about the 1st amendment, its about whether or not people who pay no federal income tax have any business demanding that those who do pay should pay more. It looks like 9 people said no and 13 said yes.
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Who is demanding where? Do you mean they can't vote?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
This isn't about the 1st amendment, its about whether or not people who pay no federal income tax have any business demanding that those who do pay should pay more. It looks like 9 people said no and 13 said yes.
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People petitioning their government is absolutely a first amendment issue.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

megaprogman said:
People petitioning their government is absolutely a first amendment issue.
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They have the right to petitution their government but they most certianly have no business demanding those who pay should pay more when they themselves pay no federal income taxes at all.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
They have the right to petitution their government but they most certianly have no business demanding those who pay should pay more when they themselves pay no federal income taxes at all.
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So you would limit their speech to what you deem appropriate?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others pay? Seems to be a fair question. Seeing how 50% of American households pay no federal income taxes is it fair for these people to demand that others who do pay income taxes pay more? It always amuses me when people piss bitch and moan about the rich using the tax system to pay as low as possible of a income tax rate when many of these same people use that same tax system to not pay any federal income taxes and to sometimes get back extra.
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So two-thirds of corporations in American...

What about people who overpaid throughout the year and don't OWE tax on April 15? Are they okay in your book?

Or what about people living below the poverty line? Or had their house blow away by a natural disaster?

Or a multimillionaire who owes no income tax because he doesn't work...??
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
They have the right to petitution their government but they most certianly have no business demanding those who pay should pay more when they themselves pay no federal income taxes at all.
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"Demand(ing)" is kind of a specious term in this context. People of all sorts can "demand" all they want. Doesn't mean said demands will be met.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
They have the right to petitution their government but they most certianly have no business demanding those who pay should pay more when they themselves pay no federal income taxes at all.
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Are they immoral?
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

To be honest, I would be more suspicious of those who want to restrict government participation to only those like themselves. Too much like the wolf guarding the hen house. Less opportunity for checks and balances.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

jamesrage said:
They have the right to petitution their government but they most certianly have no business demanding those who pay should pay more when they themselves pay no federal income taxes at all.
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How, legally, would you differentiate between people writing to their representatives on subjects you approve of and writing to their representatives on tax policy, and how would you reconcile such a law with the first amendment?

You're starting to sound a whole lot like the left-wingers who want to make sure that only the "right" people own and carry guns.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

I've just realized that since you only pay the taxes you're legally required to pay, you could literally disenfranchise or enfranchise whole groups of people by changing the way federal income taxes work. Then if people who wanted to vote would either pay a special tax, a poll tax if you will, or would just be **** out of luck because there unable to pay federal income tax because they aren't required to, and therefore unable to vote!
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

radcen said:
To be honest, I would be more suspicious of those who want to restrict government participation to only those like themselves. Too much like the wolf guarding the hen house. Less opportunity for checks and balances.
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TacticalEvilDan said:
How, legally, would you differentiate between people writing to their representatives on subjects you approve of and writing to their representatives on tax policy, and how would you reconcile such a law with the first amendment?

You're starting to sound a whole lot like the left-wingers who want to make sure that only the "right" people own and carry guns.
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I have no desire to restrict anyone who is a legal citizen from government participation. My beef is people who don't pay any federal income tax wanting those who do pay federal income taxes to pay more.
 
Re: Do those WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES have a right to dictate how much others

Anyone who thinks that the poor shouldn't have a voice in government is basically advocating for crony capitalism / oligarchy. You guys might want to look into moving to Russia, as Vladimir Putin seems like the world leader who best embodies your political views. Russia has given the world a good example of what happens when the rich are allowed to run the government without input from anyone else, and the results are not pretty.
 
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