View Poll Results: What do you think welfare should be?

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  • Leave it as it is

    3 4.11%
  • Make provisions to the current welfare system. Explain

    29 39.73%
  • Abolish it completely.

    37 50.68%
  • Other. Explain

    4 5.48%
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Thread: Welfare

  1. #61
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    Re: Welfare

    I support guarding the program against fraud. If we want to reduce the need for it however, we will need to increase the opportunity to work, not just demand that those who are currently unable to find work magically find a job in the current labor market.

  2. #62
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    I support guarding the program against fraud. If we want to reduce the need for it however, we will need to increase the opportunity to work, not just demand that those who are currently unable to find work magically find a job in the current labor market.
    Guarding against abuse/fraud is a good idea until you start spending more money policing than you would have as a loss.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Welfare

    I prefer that people can work for a living, so I think we should increase minimum wage a few dollars an hour to make it a living wage for full-time work to reduce the welfare roles.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #64
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I prefer that people can work for a living, so I think we should increase minimum wage a few dollars an hour to make it a living wage for full-time work to reduce the welfare roles.
    That would be very bad for small businesses, though, as they may not be able to pay out that money.

    Perhaps a better solution would be to peg executive pay at what a business pays its lowest paid employee. That way small business owners will still be able to afford to pay employees while big businesses will have more capital to spend on either more employees or on equipment or services which will trickle down to those businesses.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  5. #65
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    That would be very bad for small businesses, though, as they may not be able to pay out that money.
    That's always been the real hang-up. What would work for C-Corp won't work for Mom & Pop. Of course, we already have rules that only apply once a business reaches a given size, maybe that would work here as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Perhaps a better solution would be to peg executive pay at what a business pays its lowest paid employee. That way small business owners will still be able to afford to pay employees while big businesses will have more capital to spend on either more employees or on equipment or services which will trickle down to those businesses.
    Nice ideal but it'll never work IRL. Exec pay is too spread out over various industries and what are you going to do about bonuses, including "signing bonuses"? How would you put a value on stock options due years up the line? Like I said, great idea but I don't think it's workable.


    Ed:
    I think it would be a good idea to tie minimum wage to the poverty level, though.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-09-12 at 09:33 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  6. #66
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That's always been the real hang-up. What would work for C-Corp won't work for Mom & Pop. Of course, we already have rules that only apply once a business reaches a given size, maybe that would work here as well?

    Nice ideal but it'll never work IRL. Exec pay is too spread out over various industries and what are you going to do about bonuses, including "signing bonuses"? How would you put a value on stock options due years up the line? Like I said, great idea but I don't think it's workable.


    Ed:
    I think it would be a good idea to tie minimum wage to the poverty level, though.
    Your bolded parts would provide a good compromise to enable people to work full time for a living!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Welfare

    I personally would like to see welfare limited to the lower classes, not to satisfy a moral obligation or to make things fair, but to allow the poor to contribute to the common good. I've been a bigger fan of wage subsidies.
    Last edited by JustinS; 03-10-12 at 03:26 PM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Welfare

    I think the case should be as I think it was in Chile.

    Unemployment was changed to an entirely private system. People built up an unemployment account and could draw upon it if they lost their jobs, however if they retired it would be added to their retirement account.

    The only person you would steal from at that point would be yourself; this I feel is the fundamental flaw of the US welfare system. People benefit from other peoples labor.

  9. #69
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    I think the case should be as I think it was in Chile.

    Unemployment was changed to an entirely private system. People built up an unemployment account and could draw upon it if they lost their jobs, however if they retired it would be added to their retirement account.

    The only person you would steal from at that point would be yourself; this I feel is the fundamental flaw of the US welfare system. People benefit from other peoples labor.
    Why not just pay a living wage for full time work?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #70
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why not just pay a living wage for full time work?
    because as I have read and seen economically a "livable wage" is an illusion.

    Our livable wage is based on prices and costs remaining fixed. Now if you could close the market (ie, eliminate all foreign goods & services) it would be a start in the right direction.

    Next you would have to tell the federal and all other governments to never run up debt. Why because this increases the eventual taxes needed to pay for everything.

    These two things would greatly change the effect of the minimum wage.

    afterward, taxes would have to be reduced on the people. And I don't mean more on the rich and more refunds to the poor. it needs to be streamlined, yes it's great with the bottom 20% (or whatever) pays no taxes. But what about the refund mechanisms? they cost money to operate.

    at this point is where I would plug "The Fair Tax Act" to simplify tax revenue collection.

    Finally, the US government can never "issue" more money. This creates inflation which hurts the poor directly. If you notice the "poverty level" always rises. Why? inflation. However, this is because more money is being issued. This is theft and the worst part is it hurts those least able to stop it.

    Will this completely fix the problem. I don't know, however it would greatly improve the situation.

    Oh, final note. To improve the wages received by everyone, the elimination of all welfare would increase the value of money held by the poor. Again, it won't fix everything. But it will be easier to spot the problems remaining.

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