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Thread: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

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    The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Most people perceive their political opinions are the correct ones.

    Do you believe that endows your person (or the political movement you belong to) with special moral stature that makes you an exception to the general rules of generalized moral conduct? For example, does it put you, as a person, above showing respect toward people with differing opinions, or excuse you from practicing a high degree of honesty and open mindedness when promoting your own point-of-view?

    It seems to me as though a lot of people aren't very rigorous about testing or challenging their own beliefs because they perceive these beliefs give them some sort of special privilege, where respect and honesty are not virtues they need to develop and practice because advancing your political agenda comes first.

    That explains a lot of the behavior in politics.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-04-12 at 06:47 PM.
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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    There's no such thing as a "correct" political ideology. Ideologies espoused by individuals are dependent upon that individual's values. Values, by definition, are subjective.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    There's no such thing as a "correct" political ideology. Ideologies espoused by individuals are dependent upon that individual's values. Values, by definition, are subjective.
    This epistemological comment seems misplaced. Notice I prefaced 'opinion' with 'perceive', which does not preclude the possibility values are subjective in nature.

    This thread has more to do with how moral thinking in practice than with the true nature of morality, in a metaphysical sense, aka, whether it is relativistic (due to personal or cultural subjectivism) or universal (for whatever reason).

    I'm not looking for a heavy philosophical debate. Basically all I asked is if people feel as though they don't need to show respect or be honest when promoting their own opinions, because they believe those opinions put them above the mindfulness or discipline it would require to live respectfully and honestly.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-04-12 at 06:43 PM.
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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    This epistemological comment seems misplaced. Notice I prefaced 'opinion' with 'perceive', which does not preclude the possibility values are subjective in nature.

    This thread has more to do with how moral thinking in practice than with the true nature of morality, in a metaphysical sense, aka, whether it is relativistic (due to personal or cultural subjectivism) or universal (for whatever reason).

    I'm not looking for a heavy philosophical debate.
    Well, I respect people with different political opinions as long as their opinions are based upon reality and truth, rather than propaganda and logically fallacious arguments.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Other

    Very rarely. One cannot be snobbish to another person simply because he came to different political conclusions (and hence views his opinions as "correct" and everybody else's as "naïve", due to his own naïvety). Nazis may be one of the few exceptions.

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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, I respect people with different political opinions as long as their opinions are based upon reality and truth, rather than propaganda and logically fallacious arguments.
    That's a fair response, though it can have limitations, since it is limited by an individual's own notion of what reality and truth are, and their own measure of their capacity to understand them, and to act on that understanding in a politically efficient way. People might be too absorbed in their own understanding of such things to continually develop a better, more objective understanding. Since such understandings can have a very intoxicating effect on the human psyche, like opium or any other drug, that seemingly enlightened person would never be aware of their own hypocrisy.

    That said, it is a bit at cross-purposes; the ultimate idea is whether being respectful, open-minded, and honest is what people 'should do'.

    I'm aware your interpretation of the Is-Ought Problem precludes the objectivity of such things, but in practice, are you are saying that people 'should' be honest, respectful, and open-minded regardless of whether their political opinions are correct or not? Your response is a little ambiguous on that point and seems to fall more in the way of 'Other'.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-04-12 at 06:51 PM.
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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, I respect people with different political opinions as long as their opinions are based upon reality and truth, rather than propaganda and logically fallacious arguments.
    Wait -- you just said they were all based on values, and subjective values at that.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Wait -- you just said they were all based on values, and subjective values at that.
    A person can be motivated to act as though morality is objective in some sense, if acting that way helps secure personal and collective goals of the individuals participating in civilization.

    This kind of pragmatism is one of the responses to the problems created by moral relativism, at least the practical ones.

    Personally, I don't think that is true, or equally effective as belief in moral objectivism (provided the belief is the correct belief), but that's an epistemological/metaphysical/ethical issue and neither here nor there.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-04-12 at 07:01 PM.
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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    "Correct" only exists in the minds of humans, like morality, and money.

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    Re: The Moral Value of Correct Political Opinions (real version)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    A person can be motivated to act as though morality is objective in some sense, if acting that way helps secure personal and collective goals of the individuals participating in civilization.

    This kind of moral pragmatism is one of the responses to the problems created by moral relativism, at least the practical ones.
    That's fine, but it's still contradictory statement.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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