View Poll Results: Do Men Have the Right to Control Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

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  • Yes

    4 7.69%
  • No

    42 80.77%
  • Under Certain Circumstances(s) - Briefly list what circumstance(s))

    5 9.62%
  • Does a male dominated government?

    2 3.85%
  • Does a male dominate Religion?

    1 1.92%
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Thread: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

  1. #191
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    Yes. Barefoot, pregnant and ignorant are the only things any woman should strive for.
    Surprising from a conservative.
    This is how many nations (China, America., others) grew, in the long dark, ugly past.

  2. #192
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    How much of a portion do you pay...for your entitlement?
    It's not my entitlement.
    My position is just as valid for any other entitlement.

    If someone else is required to pay for something, for you, they're entitled to a say.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #193
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Paying a portion of what?
    Abortions, BC, etc.

    If you can foot the entire bill, then I should have no say.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #194
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Yes, perhaps so. It may even survive in the long run, though it's unlikely.

    When discussing an individual 7-month-old fetus, if it survives, it's a life. If it doesn't, it never was because it never possessed the ability to survive. That is fairly simple. But the journey from A to B has many shades of gray when you're talking about the larger concept of "all 7-month-old fetuses." Each individual 7-month-old fetus will be somewhere slightly different on that continuum.

    I'm not devaluing it. Again, I have not argued in favor of abortion at this stage, except in medical cases.



    Terri Shaivo could move. She was in no way interested in her survival. She was simply reflexive, because some of her brain stem was still somewhat intact. Nerve ticks do not equal life. A severed tail can have nerve ticks.

    Brain development indicitive of some sort of awareness and life develops somewhere around 25 weeks, as I understand it.



    Yes. But what they were isn't terribly important. What they are now is what matters.



    Perhaps. I'm certainly not dispassionate, but I share this degree of passion with most other issues of personal agency. Neutral? Maybe not. I obviously have a vested interest in being pro-choice. But I also have absolutely no valid reason to oppose it objectively.

    If I did, I am the sort of person who is willing to make my life very difficult for the sake of my ethics, and I would probably choose celibacy over risk of having to have an abortion. But as it stands, I see no reason to.
    You argue well and don't let emotion get the better of you, which puts you in the upper crust of debate, so I appreciate that. It looks like we've arrived at point where you have one view, I have another, we've both made our cases, and that's that.

    I would suggest, though, that you consider the idea that you have the right to decide what to do with your body (which I agree with, so don't read this incorrectly) isn't based in science, but is a value judgment.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #195
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's not my entitlement.
    My position is just as valid for any other entitlement.

    If someone else is required to pay for something, for you, they're entitled to a say.
    I can name so many reasons that's not true.

    Ever consider the following:

    The concept of creating a large pool of participants is central to any insurance plan, private or public. The cost is spread way out and the risk is spread way out. It's kinda like the federal government, you don't get to decide if your tax dollar is buying a missile or a highway, it's all a part of the general welfare, or some such Constitutional frivolity.

  6. #196
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    If a man is anti choice and against abortions your question makes no sense. He already said he cares.
    but you say he shouldn't care... you are the one selling to us that a man has absolutely no say or responsibility.
    so which is it, should the man care and listen to your advise, or does he listen to your advise and not care?


    if you are actually interested in a dialogue here... you would call your opposition "pro-lifers"...

  7. #197
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    You said, "...you can't force ideal circumstances..."

    No relationship is ideal, so we have to create an organic system which assimilates imperfections. This means we have to hold people responsible so they try wholeheartedly in deciding whether or not to commit.
    So I'm telling you that you can't force something, and you conclude that I believe in forcing something? Your brain works in mysterious ways.

    Hold them responsible for what? What place do you have in someone else's relationship?

    I agree. People should see if they're on the same wavelength so they change together.
    That isn't always possible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but not all conflicts are preventable or salvagable. That's reality. No matter how much you may want it, sometimes it just isn't going to work. That has always been the case. It's not as though unhappy couples and divorce is some sort of new-fangled 20th century invention.

    Sure, but abortion can't be used to preempt undesirable personalities.

    Furthermore, a child being undesirable doesn't mean a child doesn't deserve respect. Are you saying children even today born from unappreciative parents should have been aborted?

    Adoption is possible, but guardians need to be committed in advance to make sure that's not a gamble either.
    Personalities of whom, the parents? Sure it can. Aborting because the woman is for some reason emotionally incapable of raising a child is a perfectly good reason (not that she needs a reason, but just sayin').

    You're right, the child still deserves respect. But abortion prevents a child from ever existing.

    I would never say anyone should have been aborted at the ZEF stage. It is not my place to decide what was best for that woman at that point in time, just like it isn't anyone else's place to say that about my choices. And now that a person actually exists, it is not my place to tell them how they should feel about their own lives.

    ...and people shouldn't have intercourse before marriage.
    What is so special about marriage? It doesn't prevent people from lying or cheating or abusing their partner, and it doesn't guarantee they'll be together forever. Hell, a coin toss has better odds.

    Marriage is a dated social contract which has no actual objective meaning. For this reason, I have also chosen never to get married. What on earth is the point?

    You don't get to decide when people are allowed to have sex. Whatever arbitrary social contracts you happen to care about are not necessarily meaningful or important just because you care about them. And there are plenty of people in long-term cohabitating relationships that are much happier than most married people. There are also plenty of avowed bachelor/ettes who are likewise. And every other combination of relationship status you can think of.

    What we see reflected in reality rejects the idea that marriage is the one way to having a fulfilling intimate life.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 03-04-12 at 06:58 PM.

  8. #198
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I can name so many reasons that's not true.

    Ever consider the following:

    The concept of creating a large pool of participants is central to any insurance plan, private or public. The cost is spread way out and the risk is spread way out. It's kinda like the federal government, you don't get to decide if your tax dollar is buying a missile or a highway, it's all a part of the general welfare, or some such Constitutional frivolity.
    Insurance covering things like BC, etc, should never really be a part of insurance.
    I mean these things aren't insurable events, in the first place.

    Morally, it should be true.
    I mean, I'd love to take a portion of your paycheck and you have no say in how I spend it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #199
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I can name so many reasons that's not true.

    Ever consider the following:

    The concept of creating a large pool of participants is central to any insurance plan, private or public. The cost is spread way out and the risk is spread way out. It's kinda like the federal government, you don't get to decide if your tax dollar is buying a missile or a highway, it's all a part of the general welfare, or some such Constitutional frivolity.
    umm.. we have a say in our federal government....in fact, this issue surrounds that very notion.

  10. #200
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Abortions, BC, etc.

    If you can foot the entire bill, then I should have no say.
    Do you pay for them? In what way? Just askin as I am not sure how you pay.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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