View Poll Results: Do Men Have the Right to Control Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

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  • Yes

    4 7.69%
  • No

    42 80.77%
  • Under Certain Circumstances(s) - Briefly list what circumstance(s))

    5 9.62%
  • Does a male dominated government?

    2 3.85%
  • Does a male dominate Religion?

    1 1.92%
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Thread: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

  1. #141
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I like to keep things simple. Both man and woman have exactly equal responsibility in having a child and caring for it. I would love to see further measures to ensure that deadbeat men or women take responsibility for the life the are bringing into this world.

    Ansd I agree with that 100% Furthermore, condoms can break. If all of the responsibility is put on the man and his condom breaks, well, oh snap. My sister uses this certain kind of birth control where they place some sort of thing into her arm. The name eludes me but it's effective birth control and she never has to worry. My utter dislike of abortion makes me a firm believer of easily accessible birth control; in a perfect world I'd like to see men and women who are responsible enough to abstain from sex before marriage, and use birth control effectively during marriage, as they wish.

    I think the man, if he gets the woman pregnant, must assume/be forced to have the burden of caring for the child, whether it be child support, etc.
    But that isn't simple at all. What's more, it's impractical and doesn't work. And what's more, you're assuming the only choice is having and keeping a child.

  2. #142
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Sure there is, you just refuse to be open minded enough to accept that everyone doesn't view the world as you view it. You are too militant and arrogant in your belief that you refuse to even consider that it is reasonable, understandable, or true that someone may dare to have a different view point than you. You stated unequivocally in your other post, as if in your arrogance you believe yourself to be some kind of omnipotent being, that it is "not about the fetus". Many do, unquestionably, believe that the fetus is a human and as such its right to live is greater than the right of a woman to control her reproductive rights just as a 5 year olds right to live is greater than a woman's right to spend her money how she see's fit or take care of who she wants to take care of.

    It is YOUR arrogance and militant attitude on this issue that leads your to your own unrealistic and egocentric view of what must be the singular view legitimate view point and belief structure an individual can have and thus provides the basis for your ridiculously narrow and inaccurate statement earlier.
    I agree that maybe half of the people take an anti choice point of view. Let me ask you this if a man were anti choice and thought that fetus were something special why would he risk getting someone who may well believe that her means of birth control is abortion? Why would any male who is concerned about abortion and fetus viability chance sex where the woman may well be pro choice? If I were male and were as concerned as you seem to be I would never have sex without a condom. EVER. Expecting that a woman should give her reproductive rights because you believe differently than she does is arrogant and militant as you want to take over someone else s body. She may not think that fetus means anything. You want to enforce your belief on her. You have a lot of gall telling me I'm militant. I am not telling you not to have sex I am not trying to control and anti choicer's mind. I am trying to say that if you are against abortion don't have unprotected sex. Have sex with women that believe as you do. Don't try and control the planet because you have an opinion. That is militant and a takeover of all women's rights because you don't like what they do.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No it doesn't. Lesbian couples are quite capable of raising well-adjusted children.
    I've seen the Zach Wahls vid, but he was an Eagle Scout.

    A single parent isn't ideal, but mine (my father) was extremely capable.
    OK, but why do children have to endure nonideal circumstances?

    (I really don't see why divorce should be legal either.)

    But also, what about adoption and abortion? You're assuming the only choice is to have a child and keep it.

    It's irrelevant to my position. Because my position is that I will never bear a child. In essence, what I am assuming responsibility for is 100% of the cost of an abortion, in addition to all measures I use to prevent needing to have an abortion.
    Adoption isn't guaranteed, and abortion is what we're discussing.

  4. #144
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, I would stay it still exists on a continuum. What we consider to be "viable" is only "viable" because of heavy medical interference. In reality, an infant born before 7 months is very unlikely to survive without heavy medical intervention.
    Yet it will survive for at least a time, so it does have an existence apart from the woman's body is not a mere clump of cells. It's an "existing life." It seems to me a "continuum" is just a way to dehumanize it -- it's a life or it isn't; there aren't degrees.

    If you want to put those kinds of degrees in, then how is someone who has very little awareness a "life"? Or anyone else who can't survive without intervention, such as any newborn?


    But I'm not arguing in favor of elective late-term abortion. I'm just pointing out that there IS a difference between the two, and even post-viability the difference a couple months makes is dramatic. The difference that 5 or 6 months makes is even more dramatic.
    Not in any sense which makes it an "existing life."



    A late term fetus does display these qualities. An embryo or early fetus certainly doesn't.
    A fetus starts moving and interacting with its environment within three months, usually less. How "late" did you have in mind?



    No it isn't. The ZEF has nothing to do with the creation of its life. That life is forced into the world by the woman's body.
    Insofar as it's true (the "woman's body" can't spontaneously do it, of course) that's true of any born person.



    So? Does that release you from addressing it?

    It may very well be at play - I wouldn't deny that for a minute. But, does the possibility exist that this makes me slightly more objective on the matter?

    I have never argued against the welfare of children, have I? Clearly I am capable of recognizing children as people, even though I can't stand them. And in many of my positions, completely apart from the abortion debate, I look to science to help me understand an issue, just like I do in the abortion debate.

    I would argue that my lack of maternal drive allows me to treat the abortion debate more fairly and similarly to how I treat other debates.
    No, I don't think it makes you more neutral or dispassionate; it's just a different point of view from most.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    1. Women vote and have a say in government. There are slightly more women than men. Therefore to call the gov male dominated is questionable.
    There are more women than men in government? Since when?

    It's not about numbers, but patriarchy embedded in the culture. In the coming years, "minorities" will become the majority in America and whites will become the minority. Whites will still hold the social power though. The same is currently true of men. Men still hold the privilege even though women have more rights today than they did in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    2. Not all women are pro-choice on abortion. Many are pro-life.
    The majority of pro-lifers actively involved in the political movement, and the most vocal, are men. Full stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    3. Not all men are against abortion.
    Men are the majority of those against abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    To frame this question in this manner is to ignore many facts, most important among them that this is not a male dominating female issue, but an issue with proponents on both sides in fairly similar gender distributions.
    I can't tell whether you are being intentionally obtuse or you genuinely believe what you are saying.

    This thread was created to ask if men should have a say in women's health, especially when it comes to legislature that affects bodily sovereignty of women. My answer to that is NO. I appreciate the input of men and the support of male feminists, but they will never fully understand what it means to be a woman in this political climate. You will never know the gift/burden of carrying a child, or of having your body fought over by the patriarchy.

    The sovereignty of mens' bodies is never in question. Men have that right. It's not only enshrined in law but in culture. It's always women who have to fight for the right to control their own independent being, and it's always a fight against MEN.

  6. #146
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Nobody has the right to enforce their beliefs on another person's body.
    Then I want the transfats back in my KFC. And I want my fries cooked in beef tallow.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #147
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Then I want the transfats back in my KFC. And I want my fries cooked in beef tallow.
    I also want the right to not wear my seat belt.


  8. #148
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    But that isn't simple at all. What's more, it's impractical and doesn't work. And what's more, you're assuming the only choice is having and keeping a child.
    I'm not sure exactly which segments you're challenging, tbh.

  9. #149
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    OK, but why do children have to endure nonideal circumstances?

    (I really don't see why divorce should be legal either.)
    Because you can't force ideal circumstances. Forcing a dysfunctional couple to stay together is not going to result in a happy family. Sometimes single parenthood is a better option. It certainly was in my case. My life improved dramatically after my parents split up.

    Adoption isn't guaranteed, and abortion is what we're discussing.
    True. But my point was, that you only mentioned the option of having and keeping a child. There are other options. And the point I was making is that if I am going to tell a man that he has no input at all in my choice, right from the get-go of the relationship, then I assume responsibility for my choice. He can do as he will.

    It doesn't HAVE to be that way. I think every couple should have this conversation. Maybe she IS willing to accept input. Maybe she isn't, but expects the man to help her. The man, at that point, can choose whether or not that is something he can accept. This is something every couple should discuss before they ever have sex.

    No man I have ever been with can ever tell me he didn't know my position. He can never complain that he didn't know I didn't want children, or that I would abort. He can also be safe in the knowledge I will never expect a dime from him. And I can be safe in the knowledge that he accepts my positions, respects my humanity, and won't try to coerce me. Because I will never date a man who doesn't support my choice. That conversation is as much for my benefit as it is for his.

    With some other woman, maybe he can be safe in the knowledge that she won't abort, and that she would want him as part of a child's life. And she can be safe in the knowledge that he will never try to coerce her to abort, and that he will take an interest in a child's life. Again, it benefits both of them.

    Whatever that conversation consists of, it should be had before anyone every puts their Tab A in anyone's Slot B.

  10. #150
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    When a man and a woman have sex, it's up to them to decide together if they are going to use protection or not. You make it sound like the woman has no say in if a man wears a condom or not. If neither of them thinks about protection, it's BOTH of their faults and they are BOTH responsible for the consequences. Therefore, BOTH man and woman should make the decision is a baby is conceived.
    No it is not up to them together to decide anything and they rarely do. In LTR's they may but for the most part that is not true. IF a male is anti choice he should find out if the woman is pro choice. If he is anti choice he should be aware that at least half of the women support choice. Both are not responsible at all.
    Look at it this way. If I were a heterosexual anti choice woman, I would be on birth control and demand the male wear a condom. If I were that same woman but pro choice why do I care? I can always have an abortion so would you not say an anti choice male should wear a condom in that case. If he did he would have a 90% or better chance of preventing pregnancy. That just makes sense.
    Half or better in the US are pro choice. So why should the other half simply bend to the whim of the anti choice people?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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