View Poll Results: Do Men Have the Right to Control Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

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  • Yes

    4 7.69%
  • No

    42 80.77%
  • Under Certain Circumstances(s) - Briefly list what circumstance(s))

    5 9.62%
  • Does a male dominated government?

    2 3.85%
  • Does a male dominate Religion?

    1 1.92%
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Thread: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

  1. #121
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    you are a woman... you have no say in what a man does.
    I have no say in your health issues no. None and why would I think I should?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    A lot of this isn't worth addressing since you're ignoring most of what I actually said. I'll point out a few of the more eggregious errors.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    actually, it does. I'm not saying there is no difference between third trimester abortions and first trimester abortions. I know there's a difference. My whole post was a counterargument to your claim that there is no difference between giving birth to a fetus and terminating a fetus. Which is flat out false. As illustrated by my 9-month old fetus example.
    I didn't say there was no difference between birth and termination. Where did you get this from? What I said is that there is no consequence in preventing a life which doesn't exist, from existing. And since we are talking about elective abortions, a 9-month-old fetus does not enter into the equation anywhere.

    who do you think i am rick santorum? of course there's a difference. you seem to be assuming an awful lot about my position on abortion. i'll give you a hint: i'm not prolife (or antichoice or whatever disingenuous sensational term you like to use).
    Then I don't understand why you're conflating embryos and 9-month-old fetuses.

  3. #123
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Is it? Why should someone beyond me have a say over my reproductive system? Who do you think you are that you should have a say in that? The issue has never been about the unborn child or every male in the world would wear a condom every time they have sex. The abortion rate would have been at least 75% less if males were half as concerned as they pretend to be. A condom is far better than 75% by the way. But I am giving you the benefit of a lower number. So to not wear a condom is to support pro choice. At least half of the women are pro choice. You are banking when you have sex without a condom that the woman cares one way or the other.
    So the issue is absolutely about the woman. Men prove by their not using a condom that they don't really care either. It is not a pro choice women's responsibility to see your feelings aren't hurt. That is what you are saying. How arrogant is that?
    Well, we can play your game if you wish. Who exactly are you to vote on anything that affects men?

    But I understand. You're a partisan, and I can accept that.

    What you need to understand is that not everyone shares your beliefs. Not every woman views the unborn child as a lump of cells. Not every person lacks a conscience regarding the importance of life.

    Not everyone believes that the life developing inside of you has absolutely no right and can be ripped apart at any given moment. The issue is indeed about the unborn child; you cannot ignore reality and continue going about, sitting on your biscuit, assuming to be taken seriously. You must acknowledge that there is discussion on the existence of a seperate life that has the right to live. To ignore that reality is to ignore the fact that many other people have totally different perspectives. Imo, both man and woman should use birth control. Actually, I'd rather people had the responsibility and maturity to not have sex without the means to pay for the consequences. It takes two to make a baby, and just because the baby develops in her body, that doesn't erase the fact that the man was also a part of its creation. Both should take precautions, instead of placing all of the responsibility on just one sex.



    You're also saying that not wearing a condom makes you pro-choice. Wow. I suppose liking the rainbow makes one gay.

  4. #124
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    When the situation involves another body created by both man and woman, it's most definitely the man's business too.
    The male made his choice when he didn't use a condom. Why should a pro choice woman give a damn what some anti abortionist thinks. If he were so concerned he would use a condom. She can always have an abortion because she has the choice and will use it. Half the women and half the men disagree with you on whether that is life or not so
    what makes you think your opinion is more important than yours.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why should a woman who is pro choice use the pill?
    So she doesn't make a baby. Derp.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why should a woman who is pro choice ask you to wear a condom?
    So you don't make a baby.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why should a woman who is pro choice care that you think the fetus is important?
    Because when you choose to have sex with someone unprotected, then you're choosing to possibly make a baby together. That baby will belong to you and him. It's his decision too what happens when his baby.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why can' an anti choice male wear a condom?
    Who says they don't?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why should this anti choice male think the woman is anti choice as well?
    If a male is concerned about abortion and I know there are many who are, why would they risk supporting abortions by not using a condom? Even if they can prevent the possibility of abortion 80% of the time it only makes good sense.
    So what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that all women should agree with you? Are you saying that a pro choice woman should care about what you think, if you didn't why should she?
    Tell me what you are trying to say?
    Okay, I'm tired of answering these stupid questions. All of them are common sense answers to any clear-thinking, caring human.


  6. #126
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    The male made his choice when he didn't use a condom. Why should a pro choice woman give a damn what some anti abortionist thinks. If he were so concerned he would use a condom. She can always have an abortion because she has the choice and will use it. Half the women and half the men disagree with you on whether that is life or not so
    what makes you think your opinion is more important than yours.
    Yes, you're right if the man chose to not wear a condom. However, the woman also chose when she didn't insist on a condom. If you make a baby, it's up to BOTH of you to make the decision what you want to do. You BOTH chose to not put the condom on.


  7. #127
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    The male made his choice when he didn't use a condom. Why should a pro choice woman give a damn what some anti abortionist thinks.
    Really? Anyone who would choose not to abort their own child is an "anti-abortionist"?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #128
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why should a woman who is pro choice use the pill?
    I'd suggest asking Middleground, she's stated a bunch in the Rush thread how there's reasons to take birth control other than to protect from pregnancy.

    Perhaps the pro-choice woman has bad acne?

    Perhaps the pro-choice women is personally against abortion but feels that the government should not be mandating it?

    Perhaps the pro-choice women would rather be on the pill and avoid pregnancy because she believes the entire abortive process could potentially be somewhat disturbing mentally.

    Why should a woman who is pro choice ask you to wear a condom?
    She's cautious about STD's?

    The various reasons I just stated above?

    She's allergic to semen?

    She doesn't like the feeling of it inside her and dripping after the fact?

    Why should a woman who is pro choice care that you think the fetus is important?
    Because she perhaps actually has emotional feelings towards the individual she's having sex with and thus cares about their thoughts and views as well?

    Because perhaps she believes that while its a woman's body and ultimately her choice, the fetus growing inside of her is made of two peoples DNA...not just hers...and she recognizes the other individual may like some input?

    Why should a male who is anti choice expect a pro choice woman to care?
    He believes the woman who is having sex with him actually has an emotional attachment to him and cares what he says?

    He believes that the woman who he is having sex with actually holds respect for him and his opinions even when they're separate than her own?

    Why can' an anti choice male wear a condom?
    I don't know pro-fetus killer (if we're going to use asinine arrogant based militant terminology rather than intellectually honest and fair ones, may as well be consistent no? You pick the game you want to play), perhaps a situation occurred where he stupidly just didn't think of it, or made an extremely poor decision due to a variety of factors from his own inability to control his lustful emotions to seduction on the part of the female?

    But yes, a pro-life person absolutely could wear a condom. However this is irrelevant to the argument of many pro-life people as it assumes they only want unborn children to be protected when conceived from couplings of at least one pro-life person.

    Why should this anti choice male think the woman is anti choice as well?
    Perhaps she told him she was?

    Perhaps various things she stated made him believe that?

    Perhaps he ignorantly just assumed?

    Its funny...in a few seconds I was able to think of multiple answers to every one of your questions but you seemed to ask them as if you had this strong belief there was no, or only one, correct answer. It couldn't possibly be that you are so arrogantly sure of your position on this being absolute gospel that no one could dare possibly think opposite of your without being of inferior intelligence, bigoted, or just plain wrong.

  9. #129
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The point is, if a fetus can live on its own outside its mother, then there's no definition by which it's not an existing "life" -- which is what you said the difference was. It may have a rougher chance at survival, but then, so do quite a few full-term, naturally-born babies.
    Well, I would stay it still exists on a continuum. What we consider to be "viable" is only "viable" because of heavy medical interference. In reality, an infant born before 7 months is very unlikely to survive without heavy medical intervention.

    But I'm not arguing in favor of elective late-term abortion. I'm just pointing out that there IS a difference between the two, and even post-viability the difference a couple months makes is dramatic. The difference that 5 or 6 months makes is even more dramatic.

    And all life exhibits this, except in the few cases you mentioned. Does a fetus behave in such a way as to suggest it doesn't "desire" to live? If it doesn't, why would you not assume that it does?
    A late term fetus does display these qualities. An embryo or early fetus certainly doesn't.

    It is, and it does, as much as any life which can't express an opinion on the subject.
    No it isn't. The ZEF has nothing to do with the creation of its life. That life is forced into the world by the woman's body.

    I think your opinion on this is far from universal. Not to dredge up other threads, but I can't help but think that your own self-stated lack of a maternal instinct is very much at play here. I mean that only as an observation and not as judgment, 'coz after all, I have no desire to have kids, either.
    So? Does that release you from addressing it?

    It may very well be at play - I wouldn't deny that for a minute. But, does the possibility exist that this makes me slightly more objective on the matter?

    I have never argued against the welfare of children, have I? Clearly I am capable of recognizing children as people, even though I can't stand them. And in many of my positions, completely apart from the abortion debate, I look to science to help me understand an issue, just like I do in the abortion debate.

    I would argue that my lack of maternal drive allows me to treat the abortion debate more fairly and similarly to how I treat other debates.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 03-04-12 at 05:10 PM.

  10. #130
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    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    I have no say in your health issues no. None and why would I think I should?
    I said that because you spend a lot of time telling men what they should and shouldn't do.. all while saying that men shouldn't have a say in what women do.

    I don't believe you shouldn't have a say, i'm just borrowing your argument and using it against you.

    i'm in a rather wonderful marriage where our reproductive health concerns have been addressed together...to think, a man and a woman being able to discuss and address health concerns together.. why it's magic!...it helps neither one of us are militant sexists.

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