View Poll Results: Do Men Have the Right to Control Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

Voters
52. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    4 7.69%
  • No

    42 80.77%
  • Under Certain Circumstances(s) - Briefly list what circumstance(s))

    5 9.62%
  • Does a male dominated government?

    2 3.85%
  • Does a male dominate Religion?

    1 1.92%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 12 of 41 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 410

Thread: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

  1. #111
    OWL Forever
    katiegrrl0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    at the computer
    Last Seen
    07-07-17 @ 07:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    4,121

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    But that's just baseless speculation. No, that's not "what this is all about." The issue has always been about the unborn child; you are seeing this in a very partisan light, my friend.
    Is it? Why should someone beyond me have a say over my reproductive system? Who do you think you are that you should have a say in that? The issue has never been about the unborn child or every male in the world would wear a condom every time they have sex. The abortion rate would have been at least 75% less if males were half as concerned as they pretend to be. A condom is far better than 75% by the way. But I am giving you the benefit of a lower number. So to not wear a condom is to support pro choice. At least half of the women are pro choice. You are banking when you have sex without a condom that the woman cares one way or the other.
    So the issue is absolutely about the woman. Men prove by their not using a condom that they don't really care either. It is not a pro choice women's responsibility to see your feelings aren't hurt. That is what you are saying. How arrogant is that?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

  2. #112
    OWL Forever
    katiegrrl0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    at the computer
    Last Seen
    07-07-17 @ 07:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    4,121

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Has nothing to do with the point being argued. As someone who complains about "people putting words in your mouth," you tend to go off on these kinds of wild tangents quite a bit.
    This certainly does have a great deal to do with the issue. If not abortion why would a man give a rats ass about a woman's health? You certainly aren't discussing brain surgery, or vitamin deficiencies are you?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

  3. #113
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,175

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    That statement is a bit off, since you're basically stating that pro-life men should never have sex without condoms, even though those men will undoubtedly be having families. Why do you seem to focus only on the men when it comes to pro-life men? There may be quite a few pro-life women as well.

    Why shouldn't women, as well, take the necessary precautions? Men are taken out of the abortion issue, yet now you would say only men should protect themselves? If you state that abortions would decrease if 85% of men wore condoms. Logic dictates that abortions would decrease even more if women were as responsible as the men in using protection. Is it not enough to make contraceptives easier to obtain? Now only men have to be responsible, even though it take two to make a baby?
    I tend to agree with you.

    As a woman is not only pro-choice but also childfree, I assume 100% of the responsibility for preventing pregnancy, to the extent of keeping my own stash of condoms, putting them on myself, and paying for 100% of any other contraceptive I may use. The reason is this.

    Any man who gets involved with me knows before we ever had sex what my position is. He has no say in it, and I make that clear. He can choose at that point whether to have sex with me or not. Yes, he has to wear a condom, but that is for both of our benefits beyond just preventing pregnancy and I am assuming all responsibility for providing them and applying them. I don't care if he never buys the condoms for the entire duration of our relationship.

    Because if that is how I'm going to operate, if I am going to assume 100% of the decision-making power for pregnancy without accepting any input, then I also assume 100% of the responsibility for my own reproductive choices. The man has zero burden to provide me with anything, ever, under any circumstances.

    When we make a choice, we assume responsibility for that choice. And honestly, I think feminists who believe their choices are someone else's responsibility, even in part, are degrading the compitence of women.

  4. #114
    Teacher of All Things


    Josie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    28,359

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Is it? Why should someone beyond me have a say over my reproductive system? Who do you think you are that you should have a say in that? The issue has never been about the unborn child or every male in the world would wear a condom every time they have sex. The abortion rate would have been at least 75% less if males were half as concerned as they pretend to be. A condom is far better than 75% by the way. But I am giving you the benefit of a lower number. So to not wear a condom is to support pro choice. At least half of the women are pro choice. You are banking when you have sex without a condom that the woman cares one way or the other.
    So the issue is absolutely about the woman. Men prove by their not using a condom that they don't really care either. It is not a pro choice women's responsibility to see your feelings aren't hurt. That is what you are saying. How arrogant is that?
    When a man and a woman have sex, it's up to them to decide together if they are going to use protection or not. You make it sound like the woman has no say in if a man wears a condom or not. If neither of them thinks about protection, it's BOTH of their faults and they are BOTH responsible for the consequences. Therefore, BOTH man and woman should make the decision is a baby is conceived.


  5. #115
    Guru
    the_recruit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,178

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No, I'm not talking about a 9-month-old fetus except in very select circumstances. Don't tell me what I'm talking about.
    oh for ****'s sake.

    Here let me try again. Hey smokeandmirrors, how about we talk about 9-month old fetuses? You said there is no difference between giving birth to a fetus and terminating a fetus. If that statement is true, isn't it true of 9-month old fetuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    In the case of a 9-month-old fetus, if it comes down between saving the woman and saving the fetus, I'll vote for the woman every single time and without reservation.
    kewl. me too. anyway....

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Like I've said numerous times, we have other protections for organisms that can't give intellectual consent, but can display a desire to survive. This can be applied to a 9-month-old fetus. But, just like in every other case where we apply this, the sentient human wins out at the end of the day. Especially if the non-sentient being is the aggressor.

    What I'm talking about, mostly, is elective abortions. Elective abortions are uncommon after the 1st trimester, and almost unheard of in the 3rd. Therefore, this has nothing to do with my argument.
    actually, it does. I'm not saying there is no difference between third trimester abortions and first trimester abortions. I know there's a difference. My whole post was a counterargument to your claim that there is no difference between giving birth to a fetus and terminating a fetus. Which is flat out false. As illustrated by my 9-month old fetus example.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Your argument accounts for none of the nuance that exists in actual reality. Are you telling me there is no difference between an embryo and a 9-month-old viable fetus? Then what is the difference between a sperm and an adult human? Before you tell me a sperm can't become a human on its own, neither can an embryo.
    who do you think i am rick santorum? of course there's a difference. you seem to be assuming an awful lot about my position on abortion. i'll give you a hint: i'm not prolife (or antichoice or whatever disingenuous sensational term you like to use).


    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Yes, there's a difference. The difference is actually demonstrated perfectly by my example above, where when it comes down to the life of a woman or a 9-month-old fetus, the woman wins.
    as i've already said, i agree. this is uncontroversial, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    But there's a second argument that could made here which also applies to an unwanted pregnancy. The heartworms aggressively and nonconsensually threatened the life of the dog. Ethically, the dog's desires in that situation are automatically more important than the heartworm's desires, in the same way that killing is generally acceptable if it's in self-defense. This can be applied just as readily to a ZEF in a woman who never desired to be pregnant. That ZEF is posing imminent risk to her health without her consent, and even the most textbook pregnancies leave some nasty scars.
    again, you seem to be arguing against a phantom position you assume i hold...

  6. #116
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:23 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,607

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Perhaps not, but they can display consistency and behaviors associated with will to survive. More on this after the next quote.

    Actually there's a huge difference. Try removing a 6-month-old fetus and an 9-month-old fetus from the uterus and see which one lives longer. The former doesn't even have full lungs yet, and will probably die without heavy medical intervention. Even with medical intervention, it may die anyway and if it doesn't it will probably be extremely disabled.
    The point is, if a fetus can live on its own outside its mother, then there's no definition by which it's not an existing "life" -- which is what you said the difference was. It may have a rougher chance at survival, but then, so do quite a few full-term, naturally-born babies.



    These behaviors of desire to live suggest to us to act in the best interest of it continuing to live.
    And all life exhibits this, except in the few cases you mentioned. Does a fetus behave in such a way as to suggest it doesn't "desire" to live? If it doesn't, why would you not assume that it does?

    But that wasn't really the point. The point is that people act as though an embryo is just leaping at the chance to be alive at some later date. It isn't. It can't even display survival behaviors that I mention above.
    It is, and it does, as much as any life which can't express an opinion on the subject.


    Whatever we decide to do with it is ultimately something we do for our own selfish reasons.
    I think your opinion on this is far from universal. Not to dredge up other threads, but I can't help but think that your own self-stated lack of a maternal instinct is very much at play here. I mean that only as an observation and not as judgment, 'coz after all, I have no desire to have kids, either.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #117
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:23 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,607

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    This certainly does have a great deal to do with the issue. If not abortion why would a man give a rats ass about a woman's health? You certainly aren't discussing brain surgery, or vitamin deficiencies are you?
    I'm certainly not discussing anything you say in this post, that's for sure.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #118
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Because if that is how I'm going to operate, if I am going to assume 100% of the decision-making power for pregnancy without accepting any input, then I also assume 100% of the responsibility for my own reproductive choices. The man has zero burden to provide me with anything, ever, under any circumstances.
    No... I have to disagree with this on behalf of the children.

    A complete upbringing requires a committed father figure. This is especially the case for boys.

    When we make a choice, we assume responsibility for that choice. And honestly, I think feminists who believe their choices are someone else's responsibility, even in part, are degrading the compitence of women.
    This is nice of you, but nobody is competent to parent a child on one's own.
    Last edited by Daktoria; 03-04-12 at 04:58 PM.

  9. #119
    OWL Forever
    katiegrrl0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    at the computer
    Last Seen
    07-07-17 @ 07:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    4,121

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It is as militant as saying that anyone who believes in a religion has a mental disorder.
    What exactly are you trying to say?

    Why should a woman who is pro choice use the pill?
    Why should a woman who is pro choice ask you to wear a condom?
    Why should a woman who is pro choice care that you think the fetus is important?
    Why should a male who is anti choice expect a pro choice woman to care?
    Why can' an anti choice male wear a condom?
    Why should this anti choice male think the woman is anti choice as well?
    If a male is concerned about abortion and I know there are many who are, why would they risk supporting abortions by not using a condom? Even if they can prevent the possibility of abortion 80% of the time it only makes good sense.
    So what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that all women should agree with you? Are you saying that a pro choice woman should care about what you think, if you didn't why should she?
    Tell me what you are trying to say?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

  10. #120
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

    I'm just relieved to find out that the only reason to wear a condom is whether or not you want a baby popping out 9 months later.

    That takes a load off my mind. I could've swore I had heard at some point condoms had some other purpose that was as, if not more, important. Guess I must've been imagining that.

    Go ahead ladies...and men too...if you don't want kids and don't care about abortions **** all you want san's condoms. That's the smart thing to do.

Page 12 of 41 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •