View Poll Results: Right to die

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  • People have no right to die under any circumstance

    15 18.52%
  • Only terminally ill people have the right to die

    5 6.17%
  • People have the right to die, but healthcare professionals should not aid in the process

    11 13.58%
  • People have the right to die, and healthcare professionals should be allowed to assist suicide

    46 56.79%
  • Suicide attempts should not be a criminal offense

    26 32.10%
  • Suicide attempts should be illegal

    11 13.58%
  • other

    8 9.88%
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Thread: Right to die

  1. #161
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Again, the provider that took the lives of those they were supposed to be caring for had no ethical problems with that. You say that the only way to assist is with permission. Why? Because this is your ethical standard? Your standard holds sway while others do not? What makes yours more important than that of others?
    Because rights end where another person's rights begin. Once you start talking about taking a person's life without their permission, it has nothing to do with their ethics any more, and everything to do with a violation of the other person's right to life.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  2. #162
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Regardless of how someone feels on the issue, we are all regulated by ethical and professional conduct codes. If a medical professional thinks it's okay to kill someone at their request, the professional would still be in violation of his own codes of behavior. I'm not suggesting that this couldn't hpapen, but it would be a violation on his/her part.
    Ethics, particularly as parts of professional codes, do change. Obviously it is a violation of US doctors' professional ethics code. However, this is not true for all doctors, all over the world. Many health care professionals feel that their interpretation of the ethical code would allow them to assist a person to commit suicide in a pain-free way. Obviously, this is true in some other countries that do allow medical personnel to assist suicide, particularly for terminally ill patients. And those who are here in the US generally do not because they probably feel that they can do more good by pushing for the law/ethical code to change here and continue caring for their patients to the best of their ability.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #163
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because rights end where another person's rights begin.
    Rights? I thought we were discussing ethics?

    Once you start talking about taking a person's life without their permission, it has nothing to do with their ethics any more, and everything to do with a violation of the other person's right to life.
    A law doesn't change a persons ethics. Pot is illegal but yet, ethically thousands see no problem with it.

  4. #164
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    Re: Right to die

    People do have the right to die. When someone is suffering there should be no reason to not allow them the peace and dignity of death.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  5. #165
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    "mental patient" includes those who have been suffering from debilitating depression / anxiety for years and it does not go away.

    People who have suffered for 20 years, people that have to take 17 pills a day, that can't get out of bed, that cry for one or two hours every day. People who are so debilitated by their disease that their quality of life sucks. We have this compassion for people with physical ailments, why not mental? They are just as debilitating. It's parity. There is no parity for mental health care because some people don't believe it is real, or that it can hurt just as much as physical ailments. There is no parity in caring for those will mental illness (which is another thread entirely). I would never advocate for compassionate suicide for someone suffering from something, as one person called "'curable' as guilt, shame, or a broken heart"
    Many of us believe that 'real' therapy can actually help with fear symptoms such as anxiety and that with actual therapy and appropriate med management those symptoms do not need to dominate peoples lives. However...again...we typically do not see in hospitals people that are exhausted from the life long stress of anxiety but rather people that are experiencing immediate and in the moment stressors...things with identifiable triggers. Like the terminally ill individual, someone who has truly reached the end of their figurative rope isnt going to 'attempt' suicide. They are going to 'commit' suicide, and the medical profession likely will never come into the picture.

  6. #166
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    People do have the right to die. When someone is suffering there should be no reason to not allow them the peace and dignity of death.
    I agree with you on that point. The issue that seems to be the sticking point for some of us is the issue of assisted suicide by the medical community. I don't have a problem with the idea of assisted suicide itself, if a medical professional wants to participate in that (and it's also legal), but it's illegal in most states, and several posters here seem to believe it is something that should be allowed regardless of legal status.

    As I pointed out earlier in the thread- there is a distinction which needs to be made between the right to die and the right to be killed. Assisted suicide falls in the latter category.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  7. #167
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    How can you claim that someone should have to oversee something that you say is a right? I have a right to free speech. I do not have to have an advocate around for me to excersise that right.
    But you may have to secure someone else's permission to make use of a broadcast medium. Or look at guns. A right to bear an arm, does not mean that you don't have to register said arm.



    How is this different than laws today? People kill others and then claim it was suicide.
    In this case it's the difference of "Why yes I killed him. He asked me to take his life for him". Currently the murder kills the person and then tries to cover it up so he doesn't seem involved at all. If assisted suicide were legal, then why bother with cover up? Just claim it was assisted suicide.



    It's either a right or not. If it's a right, I do not need to get permission.
    It's not getting permission. That's why I noted that a Notary Public should suffice. If nothing else, you right is to remove your own life. If you need any kind of "permission" it is to allow someone else to do it for you. Otherwise, by registering your intent with officials, you then free up LEO from having to investigate.

  8. #168
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I agree with you on that point. The issue that seems to be the sticking point for some of us is the issue of assisted suicide by the medical community. I don't have a problem with the idea of assisted suicide itself, if a medical professional wants to participate in that (and it's also legal), but it's illegal in most states, and several posters here seem to believe it is something that should be allowed regardless of legal status.

    As I pointed out earlier in the thread- there is a distinction which needs to be made between the right to die and the right to be killed. Assisted suicide falls in the latter category.
    I think that the healthcare staff should have the choice to assist or not. If a person has requested to be put to rest that is not murder. It is the easing of suffering. I do not see it as any form of murder. It is a medical measure to help the patient.

    If I am only going to suffer and make those around me hurt I would hope someone had the courtesy to honor my wish to end it.
    Last edited by katiegrrl0; 03-06-12 at 07:52 PM.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  9. #169
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I agree with you on that point. The issue that seems to be the sticking point for some of us is the issue of assisted suicide by the medical community. I don't have a problem with the idea of assisted suicide itself, if a medical professional wants to participate in that (and it's also legal), but it's illegal in most states, and several posters here seem to believe it is something that should be allowed regardless of legal status.

    As I pointed out earlier in the thread- there is a distinction which needs to be made between the right to die and the right to be killed. Assisted suicide falls in the latter category.
    Whoa, whoa, whoa. Is that why you have been arguing so hard with me? You think I believe that medical personnel should just help people kill themselves regardless of the law?

    I never once said that. I think the law should change. Until it does, medical professionals should not be helping people commit suicide where it is illegal. But those that would be willing to provide assistance should advocate and could help present the case much better than those of us with no medical experience.

    In fact, I'm not sure anyone in this thread has actually advocated that someone ignore the law and assist in suicide anyway.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #170
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Whoa, whoa, whoa. Is that why you have been arguing so hard with me? You think I believe that medical personnel should just help people kill themselves regardless of the law?

    I never once said that.
    Who said anything about you?
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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