View Poll Results: Right to die

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  • People have no right to die under any circumstance

    15 18.52%
  • Only terminally ill people have the right to die

    5 6.17%
  • People have the right to die, but healthcare professionals should not aid in the process

    11 13.58%
  • People have the right to die, and healthcare professionals should be allowed to assist suicide

    46 56.79%
  • Suicide attempts should not be a criminal offense

    26 32.10%
  • Suicide attempts should be illegal

    11 13.58%
  • other

    8 9.88%
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Thread: Right to die

  1. #141
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Question: If you are the doctor of a sweet and beautiful grandmother, who you have cared for over a month or so, to the point you love her. She is in extreme pain and you know full well anything stronger will either kill her or put her in a coma, but she looks in your eyes, pleading as she asks for the pain to end, and she is ready to pass.....
    There is a distinction between the right to die, and the right to be killed. If you want to be killed, then I suggest finding someone who is willing to kill you at your request, or kill yourself. I assure you that if I wanted to die, there is a wide range of methods I could use to facilitate my own death. If someone wants to be killed, it's unethical to expect that of the medical community who is in the business of healing and saving lives. You might find a doctor or nurse who was sympathetic and would give you a lethal dose of drugs, but they would either do it secretly, or they would outright refuse.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  2. #142
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That doesn't really mean much though. Why does it matter when talking about access to your rights if you regret it in the future?
    Because it isn't fair to the victim to be harmed, perhaps irreparably, by something outside of their control. That is something that we should try to prevent if at all possible. If someone who isn't capable of rational action does something that harms themselves, that is every bit as bad as someone or something else harming them. We don't allow mentally ill people to commit suicide for the same reason that we don't allow others to murder them...and we don't allow kids to smoke cigarettes for the same reason that we don't allow others to poison them. It isn't fair that someone should be deprived of their life or health by factors outside their control (whether those factors are the actions of another person or their own irrational mental state).

    Yes
    OK, well if you believe that kids should be able to smoke cigarettes, then let's take this to its logical conclusion. Do you believe that kids should be allowed to shoot up heroin if they want to? Should they be allowed to have sex with adults if they want to? Their body their choice, even if they regret those actions later...right?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-05-12 at 11:42 PM.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    But you said that it doesn't matter whether something offends your personal ethics as long as it doesn't offend someone else's.
    No it's not what I said. I said that just because a medical professional feels that it is a violation of their ethical code to assist in a suicide, does not mean that another medical professional will believe that it is against their ethics to assist in a suicide. The only way to assist in a suicide is if the person wants to die and makes that wish known, otherwise, it is murder, not suicide.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because it isn't fair to the victim to be harmed, perhaps irreparably, by something outside of their control.
    Still talking about the mental state? How is the decision outside of your control when you are mentally ill? Because you don't understand it? Not sure I buy that to be honest.

    That is something that we should try to prevent if at all possible.
    I still don't understand why this makes a difference on the existence of the right.

    If someone who isn't capable of rational action does something that harms themselves, that is every bit as bad as someone or something else harming them.
    What? Not even close. Someone harming themselves rational or not is making a decision on their life and how they want to live it at that moment. While when someone harms you they are violating your ability to live free from destruction and to make your own decisions on your life rational or not.

    OK, well if you believe that kids should be able to smoke cigarettes, then let's take this to its logical conclusion.
    Sure, we could do that I guess.

    Do you believe that kids should be allowed to shoot up heroin if they want to?
    Yes.

    Should they be allowed to have sex with adults if they want to?
    Sure, if it they aren't forced into it.

    Their body their choice, even if they regret those actions later...right?
    Yes. How is this shocking anyway? I have talked in depth about this topic before.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-06-12 at 12:04 AM.

  5. #145
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I can assure you that most of us in the medical professions are far more aware of the realities of terminal illness than you seem to believe. We treat those who want treatment with agressiveness, and when they don't want treatment, we understand, but we don't try to keep hopeless situations hanging on unless the patient and/or family desires this. It just adds to the suffering.
    There are certainly hospitals that will keep patients from leaving to go home with their family if the patient isn't considered "terminally ill" but they still are not doing well. And they will go so far as to make the patient's family feel that taking the person out of the hospital is what will kill them, not the fact that the person is very sick or just old to begin with and likely to die in the hospital.

    It may just be a result of our sue-happy country, particularly when it comes to malpractice and the like, but it is quite difficult to really tell now days what the true risks are and whether a person would just be better off at home, spending their time with their family or in the hospital trying to get better so they have more years with their family.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  6. #146
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What? Not even close. Someone harming themselves rational or not is making a decision on their life and how they want to live it at that moment.
    No they aren't. As far as I'm concerned, if a person isn't of a mental state where they can rationally make the decision, then it isn't "them" making the decision at all. And it's just as victimizing if they're killed by some entity named Irrational Self as if they're killed by some entity named Serial Killer. In either case it's a tragedy, and the person is a victim because of actions outside of their control.
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  7. #147
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There are certainly hospitals that will keep patients from leaving to go home with their family if the patient isn't considered "terminally ill" but they still are not doing well. And they will go so far as to make the patient's family feel that taking the person out of the hospital is what will kill them, not the fact that the person is very sick or just old to begin with and likely to die in the hospital.
    My experience is that most doctors will abide by the patient's wishes, if he/she desires to go home to die. We often refer patients for hospice care as well. What I do see though, is that doctors and nurses won't be a party to actively facilitating the death of a patient. That was what happened in the case of my father. The doctors told my mother that they would absolutely not prescribe something that would kill him, but they would insure that he had enough to be comfortable. That was plenty for us. In my father's case, he had advanced brain cancer. He never even knew how ill he was, much less that he was dying. It happened so rapidly that we were happy just to have him around for the short time that we did after his diagnosis was made. I would never have desired that someone kill my father. He would never have wanted that either. He was a devout Christian man who believed suicide was wrong, and I could not have lived peacefully with letting someone else make that choice for him.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  8. #148
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Enola View Post

    This is my baby. My best friend of 14 years. 2 hours befor the vet arrived. I promised him. And he knew. Andhe was ready.

    I pray someone will do the same for me. Because he wait for me. And I wait for him to meet me on the other side of rainbow bridge.


    And now tht I have commenced to get myself totally bawling..I bid you all goodnight. I wont be so maudlin in the morning. Promise. Its just a sad sad subject.

    So for clarification..those who are just weary should have the same trust that someone who loves them will do the same as what I did for my friend and loved on. my dog.
    it made me feel so sad now,it is worth missing

  9. #149
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why does the decision need to be rational? Does an action need to be rational for it be taken? Does a action need to be understood by the people that practice it? I'm really sorry, but I don't see any difference here. I know you are into this whole thing, but rational or irrational behavior doesn't change the nature of the behavior. It is still the same behavior and it still falls under the right to control your body. When talking about wisdom of such a decision perhaps, but that is not really the same thing.



    The mentally ill have all the rights of anyone else. Just because they are unstable does not change it. It only changes how you view it, but that alone is not a factor. I understand your want to help them, but that doesn't matter.
    irrational behaviour cant control your body.and the decision of a mental patient is usually irrational.

  10. #150
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    Re: Right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    irrational behaviour cant control your body.and the decision of a mental patient is usually irrational.
    "mental patient" includes those who have been suffering from debilitating depression / anxiety for years and it does not go away.

    People who have suffered for 20 years, people that have to take 17 pills a day, that can't get out of bed, that cry for one or two hours every day. People who are so debilitated by their disease that their quality of life sucks. We have this compassion for people with physical ailments, why not mental? They are just as debilitating. It's parity. There is no parity for mental health care because some people don't believe it is real, or that it can hurt just as much as physical ailments. There is no parity in caring for those will mental illness (which is another thread entirely). I would never advocate for compassionate suicide for someone suffering from something, as one person called "'curable' as guilt, shame, or a broken heart"

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
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