• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Death Penalty

Should there be a death penalty?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 47.0%

  • No

    Votes: 45 38.5%

  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    Votes: 17 14.5%
  • Total voters
    117
Ikari said:
Well if they cannot show that arson didn't occur, then they have no grounds to prosecute someone for the crime of arson, yes?
Click to expand...
He was prosecuted for the crime of murder, not arson. I'm still trying to sort out your double negative.
 
Meathead said:
He was prosecuted for the crime of murder, not arson. I'm still trying to sort out your double negative.
Click to expand...

But the murder was via arson, yes? Or arson was presented as a means of covering the crime. If there was no arson, how is there to say there was "murder" per say? Particularly if later the fire was ruled accidental. Seems to me that one needs to demonstrate definitively that a crime occurred before one can be prosecuted for a crime, yes?
 
Tigger said:
That's fine. As I said, I don't agree with it on a philosophical level any more than on a religious one. I'm much more of an "eye for an eye" type than the "forgive and forget" type. I just hope that at no point in your life do you experience the sort of things that will make you wake up and see the world for the way it truly is..... A Dog eat Dog experience where only the Strong survive. There are only two types of people in the world... Predators and Prey. If you aren't the first, you're definitely the second.
Click to expand...

I have lived an interesting life so far and I have seen adversity, I have overcome.
I have been the victim of violence, I see the effects of predators all the time, I also see what happens when the prey fight back and when the prey stand up. I have also seen predators change, amazing huh-- the world and the way people live is fluid, changing all our perceptions and actions.
 
lizzie said:
Stop paying for women to have illigitimate babies. It's pretty simple. Require people to be responsible for their own choices, and live with the consequences of their actions. It's not complicated at all.
Click to expand...

No one is paying anyone to have babies. The aid programs you're referring to are about making sure that children don't starve. The assistance offered to single mothers doesn't even offset all the cost of having that kid, let alone allow her to turn a profit. No one is making money by reproducing, and certainly poor people aren't. No one is managing to escape poverty through reproduction.
 
taxigirl said:
I have lived an interesting life so far and I have seen adversity, I have overcome.
I have been the victim of violence, I see the effects of predators all the time, I also see what happens when the prey fight back and when the prey stand up. I have also seen predators change, amazing huh-- the world and the way people live is fluid, changing all our perceptions and actions.
Click to expand...

Can't say I've ever seen or heard of a wolf becoming a vegetarian in the wild. Espcially not when there are plenty of tasty bunnies all around. That's not to say the prey don't surprise the predator from time to time and get the upper hand. It does happen, but I'm sure we'd both agree it's the exception rather than the rule.

I have made a point in life of NEVER allowing myself to be prey. That's meant I've had to be a predator for a long time. I'm probably one of the more benevolent ones out there, but I will never be anything other than a predator. The day I can no longer be one is the day I put myself down.
 
Tigger said:
Can't say I've ever seen or heard of a wolf becoming a vegetarian in the wild. Espcially not when there are plenty of tasty bunnies all around. That's not to say the prey don't surprise the predator from time to time and get the upper hand. It does happen, but I'm sure we'd both agree it's the exception rather than the rule.

I have made a point in life of NEVER allowing myself to be prey. That's meant I've had to be a predator for a long time. I'm probably one of the more benevolent ones out there, but I will never be anything other than a predator. The day I can no longer be one is the day I put myself down.
Click to expand...

Who are you preying on and for what? :bunny:
 
katiegrrl0 said:
I wonder how many of the pretend pro lifers are for the death penalty? LOL and they call themselves pro life. hehehe Anyway no there should not be a death penalty.
Click to expand...

Well, here's one pro-lifer that is anti-capital punishment.
 
I don't see how it's hypocritical to be anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment. Abortion is said by this group of people to be immoral because it involves the killing of an innocent human, whilst capital punishment is morally permissible because the criminal was guilty.
 
Of course, when pro-lifers advocate a liberal-democratic idealist foreign program that goes around and kills children, then it becomes hypocritical. A defense of this policy (e.g. "it doesn't count because they are not Americans", etc.) basically reduces to a bunch of crazy essentialism. However, I'm not saying that all pro-lifers are advocates of liberal-democratic imperialism though, as that would be egregiously false.
 
JustinS said:
I don't see how it's hypocritical to be anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment. Abortion is said by this group of people to be immoral because it involves the killing of an innocent human, whilst capital punishment is morally permissible because the criminal was guilty.
Click to expand...

Hey latecomer, look back through the thread and see how many times our justice system has gotten it wrong. It's a lot more times than you would think it would be. I have posted the link numerous times in this thread. I won't argue the rest of your post. I've argued it until I'm blue in the face.
 
JustinS said:
Of course, when pro-lifers advocate a liberal-democratic idealist foreign program that goes around and kills children, then it becomes hypocritical. A defense of this policy (e.g. "it doesn't count because they are not Americans", etc.) basically reduces to a bunch of crazy essentialism. However, I'm not saying that all pro-lifers are advocates of liberal-democratic imperialism though, as that would be egregiously false.
Click to expand...

How are our foreign program's "liberal-democratic idealist"? What is a liberal democratic idealist anyway? You could just as easily say it's "neo-conservative colonialism".
 
JustinS said:
I don't see how it's hypocritical to be anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment. Abortion is said by this group of people to be immoral because it involves the killing of an innocent human, whilst capital punishment is morally permissible because the criminal was guilty.
Click to expand...

Which would then mean that all life is not sacred.
 
taxigirl said:
Which would then mean that all life is not sacred.
Click to expand...

Because absolutely everyone who believes abortions are wrong, particularly as a form of BC, believes it because all life is sacred?

Some believe that these are two different issues. Two different reasons to be for/against these things.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Hey latecomer, look back through the thread and see how many times our justice system has gotten it wrong. It's a lot more times than you would think it would be. I have posted the link numerous times in this thread. I won't argue the rest of your post. I've argued it until I'm blue in the face.
Click to expand...

So we change the system to reduce even further us getting it wrong. But what is the difference if someone is executed and later exonerated and someone dies in prison and is later exonerated? There is a good chance that either can happen. People die in prison all the time from a number of different things. My uncle died from heart trouble about 3 months before he was going to be released after over 25 years in prison.

I hate the "innocent people get executed" schtick when it comes to the DP because those same innocent people could never get exonerated and die in prison anyway. It makes the assumption that without the DP, every innocent person who goes to prison will eventually be exonerated and will one day be able to live some of their life free. It fails to address the fact that people get killed and die in prison too.
 
roguenuke said:
So we change the system to reduce even further us getting it wrong. But what is the difference if someone is executed and later exonerated and someone dies in prison and is later exonerated? There is a good chance that either can happen. People die in prison all the time from a number of different things. My uncle died from heart trouble about 3 months before he was going to be released after over 25 years in prison.

I hate the "innocent people get executed" schtick when it comes to the DP because those same innocent people could never get exonerated and die in prison anyway. It makes the assumption that without the DP, every innocent person who goes to prison will eventually be exonerated and will one day be able to live some of their life free. It fails to address the fact that people get killed and die in prison too.
Click to expand...

So, in other words, screw it they'll probably die in prison anyway so just electrocute 'em? I have a feeling that if you were wrongly convicted for a crime and faced the death penalty, your view would be quite different.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Hey latecomer, look back through the thread and see how many times our justice system has gotten it wrong. It's a lot more times than you would think it would be. I have posted the link numerous times in this thread. I won't argue the rest of your post. I've argued it until I'm blue in the face.
Click to expand...
I understand that innocent people are convicted as guilty, and it can become hypocritical when the death penalty is applied carelessly. Many people are only in favor of capital punishment when mountains of evidence stand to the contrary.
 
Last edited:
MarineTpartier said:
How are our foreign program's "liberal-democratic idealist"? What is a liberal democratic idealist anyway? You could just as easily say it's "neo-conservative colonialism".
Click to expand...
By "liberal-democratic idealism", I mean aiming to achieve a world in which countries are all democratically governed such that elections are free and fair (e.g. the proposition "Toppling down enemy regimes to spread democracy will make the world a better place").
 
JustinS said:
I understand that innocent people are convicted as guilty, and that's when it becomes hypocritical. Many people are only in favor of capital punishment when mountains of evidence stand to the contrary.
Click to expand...

This is the stance I take. If there are 3 credible witnesses, DNA proof, or a confession then I feel capital punishment is justified.
 
taxigirl said:
Which would then mean that all life is not sacred.
Click to expand...
Most people who hold the pro-life, pro-capital punishment stance do not believe that life is sacred. If they did, then they would scorn abortion, capital punishment, and economic injustice (e.g. poverty).

There is a stance which views human life to be sacred, but it has an exclusively left-wing economic agenda. It is called the Consistent Life Ethic.
 
Last edited:
delete............
 
MarineTpartier said:
So, in other words, screw it they'll probably die in prison anyway so just electrocute 'em? I have a feeling that if you were wrongly convicted for a crime and faced the death penalty, your view would be quite different.
Click to expand...

Who do you think is more likely to get exonerated, the innocent guy sitting on death row for 15 - 20 years, who is guaranteed at least one appeal, but could have many, or the guy sitting on LWOP, who may or may not get an appeal and who many won't care nearly as much about since he is not scheduled to die? Many people only protest executions because it is the DP. There are lots of people who could care less if those same guys they are pushing to not face the DP are innocent or guilty, they simply are against the DP.

Yet, his chances may be increased to getting killed by a fellow inmate if he is LWOP instead of facing the DP. Do you think the other guys in prison will give 2 shakes if the guy is really innocent?
 
roguenuke said:
Because absolutely everyone who believes abortions are wrong, particularly as a form of BC, believes it because all life is sacred?

Some believe that these are two different issues. Two different reasons to be for/against these things.
Click to expand...

I never said "everyone who believes abortions are wrong also think all life is sacred".
 
JustinS said:
Most people who hold the pro-life, pro-capital punishment stance do not believe that life is sacred. If they did, then they would scorn abortion, capital punishment, and economic injustice (e.g. poverty).

There is a stance which views human life to be sacred, but it has an exclusively left-wing economic agenda. It is called the Consistent Life Ethic.
Click to expand...

I never said "everyone who believes abortions are wrong also think all life is sacred". and by your various posts I see you are trying to bring an agenda other than life and the death penalty into this. The question is should there be a death penalty. Economics does play a factor in who gets tried and convicted in our criminal justice system, but I think that is a whole different thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom