View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #721
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    My quote from Camus begins to address one ethical concern of the death penalty. If it is so right to do, if it is just, then why is it hidden away, why is the process not discussed? If it is the right thing to do we should not be afraid to see it. Is it unethical to have public executions?
    There are times when justice is not a pretty thing. It was barely 100 years ago that public hangings were common. We have just emotionally become unaccustomed to it- the ethics haven't changed.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  2. #722
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    And there are many more that are not biased. A few isolated incidents does not an argument make...
    You did not even bother to read the reports before you responded. There are 2 specific incidents and 3 reports on judicial bias. You asked me to show how and I provided you with the information so you could make an informed decision. I posted the studies at 7:58 and you dismissed me without reading them at 8:05. I am not asking that you bow and agree with me, I am asking that you at least look at the information you asked for.

    I challenged you to debate, you pursued me regarding it, even chiding me with "so you concede" when I had forgotten. If you do not wish to engage me in an informed, intelligent discussion please let me know as I would not want to waste your time.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
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    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  3. #723
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    You did not even bother to read the reports before you responded. There are 2 specific incidents and 3 reports on judicial bias. You asked me to show how and I provided you with the information so you could make an informed decision. I posted the studies at 7:58 and you dismissed me without reading them at 8:05. I am not asking that you bow and agree with me, I am asking that you at least look at the information you asked for.

    I challenged you to debate, you pursued me regarding it, even chiding me with "so you concede" when I had forgotten. If you do not wish to engage me in an informed, intelligent discussion please let me know as I would not want to waste your time.
    I will read them later. I thought that they were simply two examples of a Judge being arbitrary and nothing more. Tomorrow then... Cool?
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  4. #724
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    When we do get to "see" the results of war or conflict there is more outrage against it, by not seeing it we are distanced from the reality of it.
    Most people are not outraged by war. They may be outraged by parts of war that go against our beliefs of right and wrong, but most do not consider killing during war something to feel shame over just because people do not get to see every part of the war. And others may be outraged by why we go to war, but that is a different thing and generally does not apply to most people nor to every single war.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  5. #725
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Most people are not outraged by war. They may be outraged by parts of war that go against our beliefs of right and wrong, but most do not consider killing during war something to feel shame over just because people do not get to see every part of the war. And others may be outraged by why we go to war, but that is a different thing and generally does not apply to most people nor to every single war.
    I think we should feel shame. There was certainly a lot of shame felt over the Vietnam War (I do not mean to disrespect any Vets here - I am talking about feeling shame as an ethical response to the outrage of people dying). Today photographers do not have as much freedom, there may be more images from, Iraq, but images of armament and buildings are in no way as striking as photos of people as we had in Vietnam.

    Rather than typing I will give you a link that sums up what I would say to you on this topic.
    Photography.com Ľ War Photography and Combat Photography

    and a second link because Photographers Can’t Hide Behind Their Cameras, Images of war are raw, dirty, ugly, personal and disturbing. And they ought to be.
    Nieman Reports | Photographers Can

    What I think is a disservice is that we cannot have pictures of the flag draped coffins anymore. To me they were symbolic of sacrifice to the country, honorable. Now we are shamed if we distribute them and told it is disrespectful to the families. I don't agree.
    Last edited by taxigirl; 03-20-12 at 11:19 PM.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  6. #726
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Love the sarcastic "Okie Dokie artichokie" bit. I've already shown that I was not afraid of going to jail as I've already been there and found it easy. As such it was no deterence in my decision to not go after the guy. So since you believe that you know what I think and how I think perhaps you can tell me exactly why I decided to not go after the guy.

    Well....I've got some good news for ya Stang.......see...all your frettin about getting the death penalty was all for naught. The imposition of the death penalty in most states requires that IN ADDITION to being convicted of First Degree premeditated and deliberate murder that there be a SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE in the case, such as multiple murders, murder for financial gain, murder by poison, lying in wait, etc. There probably would not be such in your situation....plus....killing someone who molested a child would likely be found to be a "heat of passion" killing which reduces murder to manslaughter...and in the worst case you likely would have gotten no worse than second degree...so see.....all that worrying you did about getting the death penalty that caused you to rethink your plan was a whole lot of worrying about nothin.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  7. #727
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Well....I've got some good news for ya Stang.......see...all your frettin about getting the death penalty was all for naught. The imposition of the death penalty in most states requires that IN ADDITION to being convicted of First Degree premeditated and deliberate murder that there be a SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE in the case, such as multiple murders, murder for financial gain, murder by poison, lying in wait, etc. There probably would not be such in your situation....plus....killing someone who molested a child would likely be found to be a "heat of passion" killing which reduces murder to manslaughter...and in the worst case you likely would have gotten no worse than second degree...so see.....all that worrying you did about getting the death penalty that caused you to rethink your plan was a whole lot of worrying about nothin.
    Not to blow your bubble disney, as I am disagreeing with Stang as well, but I am honest....
    The DP does not always require premeditation. Felony murder, which is murder committed during the commission of a felony is a common factor as are sexual assault + murder, treason, train wreck, murder + kidnapping, killing an LEO, etc...
    Please see: (page 5) USDOJ Report

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cp10st.pdf

    You are correct regarding the "heat of passion" as long as there has not been a cooling off period. If he came across someone molesting child, then yes, passion, if they found out about it, reported the crime etc.. then went and committed the murder probably not.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  8. #728
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Not to blow your bubble disney, as I am disagreeing with Stang as well, but I am honest....
    The DP does not always require premeditation. Felony murder, which is murder committed during the commission of a felony is a common factor as are sexual assault + murder, treason, train wreck, murder + kidnapping, killing an LEO, etc...
    Please see: (page 5) USDOJ Report

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cp10st.pdf

    You are correct regarding the "heat of passion" as long as there has not been a cooling off period. If he came across someone molesting child, then yes, passion, if they found out about it, reported the crime etc.. then went and committed the murder probably not.
    Most states do not recognize "felony murder" as a "special circumstance"...you are correct though, there are a handful that do. Also....heat of passion does not require the person to "walk in" for instance on the abuse. Heat of passion can carry over for months or even years. True...the closer to the actual crime the better, but it is not required. A jury can find the killing was done in the heat of passion, even if the perpetrating event occurred in the past.

    BTW....some of the examples you referred to are not felony murder...they are enumerated special circumstances such as "killing of a police office", "Train wreck"....
    Last edited by disneydude; 03-21-12 at 01:25 AM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  9. #729
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Most states do not recognize "felony murder" as a "special circumstance"...you are correct though, there are a handful that do. Also....heat of passion does not require the person to "walk in" for instance on the abuse. Heat of passion can carry over for months or even years. True...the closer to the actual crime the better, but it is not required. A jury can find the killing was done in the heat of passion, even if the perpetrating event occurred in the past.

    BTW....some of the examples you referred to are not felony murder...they are enumerated special circumstances such as "killing of a police office", "Train wreck"....
    Correct. I said "AS ARE" meaning also. Did you check the DOJ report? It breaks it down by state and mentions special circumstances which are different than offenses as in the CA statute where causing death by trainwreck is reason for consideration for the Dp.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  10. #730
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    Re: Death Penalty

    The last of 4, maybe 5, victims in the French school shooting

    Toulouse shooting: heartbreaking detail of attack that shocked France and Israel - Telegraph

    The chilling images show how the lone gunman wearing a motorcycle helmet callously Hunted down individual Children after opening fire at the school gates in an attack that left four dead and a teenager fighting for his life.

    Eight-year-old Myriam Monsonego clutched her satchel as the killer chased her through the school gates and into the courtyard. He pulled her towards him by her hair and raised a gun to shoot her.

    The video footage appears to show that, at that moment, his gun jammed.

    But determined to carry out his killing spree, he kept hold of the girl, changed weapons from what police identified as a 9-mm pistol to a .45 calibre weapon, and delivered a shot to her temple at point blank range.

    He then turned, calmly walked out the school gates, mounted a powerful Yamaha scooter and sped away.
    [........]
    France has No death penalty.
    Last edited by mbig; 03-21-12 at 06:51 PM.
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