View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #701
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Bolding the part that supports your statements and yet ignoring the part that doesn't does not help your case in the slightest. The words "without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion" cannot be applied to a judge for the simple fact that they are constrained in what sentences they must mete out.

    If you're going to use a definition then you must apply all of it that is relevent. And the part that you did not bold is certainly relevent.
    I wish you would have READ my response. I responded directly and preemptively to the restriction clause. If the death sentence is not arbitrary, then show me an instance where it is decided (NOT recommended) by a panel of individuals rather than a single individual.

    In crimes where the death penalty is an option, there is no restriction on the judge other than minimum sentencing.

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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Semantics...

    Main Entry: restriction  [ri-strik-shuhn] Show IPA/rɪˈstrɪkʃən/ Show Spelled
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: limit
    Synonyms: ball and chain, bounds, brake, catch, check, circumscription, condition, confinement, constraint, containment, contraction, control, cramp, curb, custody, demarcation, excess baggage, fine print, glitch*, grain of salt, handicap, hang-up, inhibition, limitation, limits, lock*, no-no, qualification, regulation, reservation, restraint, rule, small difficulty, stint, stipulation, stricture, string, stumbling block


    Restrictions Synonyms, Restrictions Antonyms | Thesaurus.com
    A guideline is not a restriction. A recommendation is not a restriction. In cases where the DP is an option, there is no restriction on the judge other than a minimum sentencing guideline. If it is not arbitrary, name the panel which decides the ultimate fate of the accused.

  3. #703
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Semantics...

    Main Entry: restriction  [ri-strik-shuhn] Show IPA/rɪˈstrɪkʃən/ Show Spelled
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: limit
    Synonyms: ball and chain, bounds, brake, catch, check, circumscription, condition, confinement, constraint, containment, contraction, control, cramp, curb, custody, demarcation, excess baggage, fine print, glitch*, grain of salt, handicap, hang-up, inhibition, limitation, limits, lock*, no-no, qualification, regulation, reservation, restraint, rule, small difficulty, stint, stipulation, stricture, string, stumbling block


    Restrictions Synonyms, Restrictions Antonyms | Thesaurus.com

    Arbitrariness is a LEGAL notion. Just as an objection in court means something more than and objection in a conversation, just as reasonable doubt has a meaning, just as liability, just as burden. All these words have dictionary meanings as well as legal meanings. We are referring to the legal meaning of Arbitrary in the context of fairness in the application of law.

    Are you telling us that the application of the DP is without flaw? That race / victim / socioeconomic status etc... never play a role in how a case is prosecuted?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
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  4. #704
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Study, after study, after study show that the DP is not a deterrent. Not just in the US but elsewhere as well.
    As I have consistently argued and which you have ignored those studies are not valid. I have stated why. Show me why I am wrong in what I have said instead of just repeating what you have said previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    The family of the victim needs closure not retribution / revenge, they need someone to help heal them and the very limited funds we have that go to victims rights and victim family organizations can't do much. Why doesn't the state spend more time helping the victims instead of seeking retribution?
    They need both. Closure can come from the death of the perpetrator.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Anybody you put in prison can commit a murder. There is a prison culture that leads to more violence, that is their society. It is too bad, but that is what we have created in this country and it does not have to be so.
    Hey, if you have a better way of treating criminals then by all means speak up about it. Show us how your solution would work. Show us that it is practical and far better than the current system. Personally I would be happy to do away with both the DP and prison period. But the only way that is going to actually happen is if we develop a way to fundementally change a persons behavior.

    Otherwise you are putting killers with those that do not deserve death. Like those that just steal. Or those that are in prison because some state is against the Castle Doctrine Law. Or because they are in there for involuntary manslaughter...which usually means that the person didn't really mean to kill someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    As for you repeatedly mentioning your time in jail it is making me begin to think that you wear it as a badge. You know no more of solitary confinement and endless years in prison than we do. Were you in jail as you said or prison?
    It is not a badge. It is simply fact.

    And you are correct in making the distinction between jail and prison. But the other person did not. They stated jail...not prison. But not even prison would bother me. You see I'm an introvert and mildly agoraphobic. As such I relish and love every second that I am left alone. Hell if I was sent to prison I would purposely find a way to be sent to solitary confinement for that simple fact.
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    A guideline is not a restriction. A recommendation is not a restriction. In cases where the DP is an option, there is no restriction on the judge other than a minimum sentencing guideline. If it is not arbitrary, name the panel which decides the ultimate fate of the accused.
    I know that a guideline and a recommendation is not a restriction since they are not even synonyms... you said conditions and that is why I posted what I posted. They are synonymous. You are going in circles. The Judge makes the final decision WITH RESTICTIONS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Arbitrariness is a LEGAL notion. Just as an objection in court means something more than and objection in a conversation, just as reasonable doubt has a meaning, just as liability, just as burden. All these words have dictionary meanings as well as legal meanings. We are referring to the legal meaning of Arbitrary in the context of fairness in the application of law.

    Are you telling us that the application of the DP is without flaw? That race / victim / socioeconomic status etc... never play a role in how a case is prosecuted?
    You keep throwing out these illogical and fallicious arguments... we are not talking about race or economic status and I have never argued that the system is flawless.

    Irrational; capricious.

    The term arbitrary describes a course of action or a decision that is not based on reason or judgment but on personal will or discretion without regard to rules or standards.

    An arbitrary decision is one made without regard for the facts and circumstances presented, and it connotes a disregard of the evidence.


    arbitrary legal definition of arbitrary. arbitrary synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    LWOP is not a consequence?
    Sure is... but it isn't a severe enough consequence to show highly we value life. Only the offenders life can show that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #708
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    As I have consistently argued and which you have ignored those studies are not valid. I have stated why. Show me why I am wrong in what I have said instead of just repeating what you have said previously.
    The one factor that is missing from all of the studies (and you may have already pointed this out) is that they have ZERO DATA on those that did not commit a murder because they were afraid of getting the death penalty. I don't commit crimes or stay within the bounds of the law because the DP and jail act as a deterrent. IF somebody molested or killed my daughter the ONLY THING that would stop me from killing that person with extreme prejudice would be not wanted to be put to death myself and depriving my other daughter of her father. Deterrent. But you will never find me in a study since I will never intentionally kill a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #709
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I know that a guideline and a recommendation is not a restriction since they are not even synonyms... you said conditions and that is why I posted what I posted. They are synonymous. You are going in circles. The Judge makes the final decision WITH RESTICTIONS.
    Synonyms are not the same as definitions. A restriction and a condition can be closely related, but not absolutely. They can also infer different implications.

    As for the judges decision to put a man to death...in these cases, the ONLY restriction is a minimum sentence. If you look at all the men on death row (and all those executed), you will see that none of them are there because a judge was restricted to one option. Death penalty cases depend on the arbitrary decision of a judge who is not bound by law to execute the criminal. He makes the final decision.

  10. #710
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Sure is... but it isn't a severe enough consequence to show highly we value life. Only the offenders life can show that.
    Show whom?
    ĒPeople willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.Ē --- Ben Franklin

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