View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #641
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Yes we do, but the "public" is limited to a special few. Victim's families, attorneys, police involved in the case and families of the one being put to death. My point is that they are not public to the general public who vote for the candidates that support the death penalty, the ones chanting about killing. If they are so sure what we are doing is right, if the government is so sure why they are doing is ethical (from a situational view, utilitarian, cultural, authoritarian or any other ethical philosophy) why can't we see it? By hiding it, it seems that it is shameful. The government won't even tell us about the preparation of the prisoner before the execution, when they still used the electric chair they didn't talk about the process either. Why? Because they know it is wrong and because of the public actually knew / saw what happened they would be disgusted and the support for the death penalty would wane.
    Yeah... people don't want to see another person killed. That fact does not mean that killing an offender as a consequence is wrong though. We went away from public executions like public hangings because we are not barbarians that cheer at death any longer... and rightly so. It sucks. It sucks that the offender killed and that they are to be killed but that does not negate the rightness of killing the offender. People used to cheer at gladiator games as people were mauled by tigers and repeatedly stabbed by another person so I am sure that if this was a part of our culture you would not see support for the death penalty wane in the slightest if it was still public.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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  2. #642
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Yeah... people don't want to see another person killed. That fact does not mean that killing an offender as a consequence is wrong though. We went away from public executions like public hangings because we are not barbarians that cheer at death any longer... and rightly so. It sucks. It sucks that the offender killed and that they are to be killed but that does not negate the rightness of killing the offender. People used to cheer at gladiator games as people were mauled by tigers and repeatedly stabbed by another person so I am sure that if this was a part of our culture you would not see support for the death penalty wane in the slightest if it was still public.
    Hopefully one day we'll evolve to the point where killing a human being doesn't make us feel better.
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  3. #643
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Yeah... people don't want to see another person killed. That fact does not mean that killing an offender as a consequence is wrong though. We went away from public executions like public hangings because we are not barbarians that cheer at death any longer... and rightly so. It sucks. It sucks that the offender killed and that they are to be killed but that does not negate the rightness of killing the offender. People used to cheer at gladiator games as people were mauled by tigers and repeatedly stabbed by another person so I am sure that if this was a part of our culture you would not see support for the death penalty wane in the slightest if it was still public.
    It sucks that the offender killed and that they are to be killed but that does not negate the rightness of killing the offender I guess I cannot understand the dissonance you express in this quote. If it is right then why is it barbaric to watch? The act is barbaric, hiding it shows shame over that act.

    Shame can be seen as a deeply disturbing or painful feeling of guilt, incompetence, indecency, or blame-worthiness. When we see someone suffer because of a decision we made, we do feel shame. We don't always express that, we try to hide that we feel shame, because that would mean we are guilty. Death and dying is very sanitized these days and it is not often that people get to see or know what happens.

    The descriptions of the last day on death row are mostly anecdotes about the prisoner. They do not discuss how the guards feels, the warden, other prisoners, spiritual advisers. There is little mention of having to subdue to prisoner, inserting the anal plug and catheter (why do we do this -- to keep the process clean), the smell of fear coming from everyone involved that are walking the "last mile". There are so many questions, with not many answers provided, it is kept that way so we do not feel the shame of what we have done, so we can keep on going like nothing has happened. Is it ethical to turn a blind eye on something shameful?

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  4. #644
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Hopefully one day we'll evolve to the point where killing a human being doesn't make us feel better.
    I don't think that it has anything to do with making me feel better... it has to do with facing a consequence to their action and upholding the value of human life. Hopefully one day we will evolve to the point were people aren't petty and don't hurt others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #645
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I don't think that it has anything to do with making me feel better... it has to do with facing a consequence to their action and upholding the value of human life. Hopefully one day we will evolve to the point were people aren't petty and don't hurt others.
    If you really value human life, you'll set an example.

  6. #646
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    It sucks that the offender killed and that they are to be killed but that does not negate the rightness of killing the offender I guess I cannot understand the dissonance you express in this quote. If it is right then why is it barbaric to watch? The act is barbaric, hiding it shows shame over that act.

    Shame can be seen as a deeply disturbing or painful feeling of guilt, incompetence, indecency, or blame-worthiness. When we see someone suffer because of a decision we made, we do feel shame. We don't always express that, we try to hide that we feel shame, because that would mean we are guilty. Death and dying is very sanitized these days and it is not often that people get to see or know what happens.

    The descriptions of the last day on death row are mostly anecdotes about the prisoner. They do not discuss how the guards feels, the warden, other prisoners, spiritual advisers. There is little mention of having to subdue to prisoner, inserting the anal plug and catheter (why do we do this -- to keep the process clean), the smell of fear coming from everyone involved that are walking the "last mile". There are so many questions, with not many answers provided, it is kept that way so we do not feel the shame of what we have done, so we can keep on going like nothing has happened. Is it ethical to turn a blind eye on something shameful?
    It is not barbaric to watch. It is barbaric to cheer as we used to. Is it barbaric to kill the offender? Well, that is an opinion. It might be but that does not make it the wrong action.

    I have no idea what you are talking about with the rest. The catheter is irrelevant. Why have it be messy if it doesn't need to be? You are not addressing anything about why killing the offender is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #647
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    If you really value human life, you'll set an example.
    My view does. By taking the murderers life we are upholding the highest value for the life they took. By exacting the highest price we are affirming that taking an innocent life is the gravest of crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #648
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    What studies are you speaking of? and how, other than through opinion did you "prove" them false?
    Bold: Any of em that show the violent crime rate in a non-DP state vs a DP state.

    Underlined: Its not so much opinion as it is simple common sense. Unless those studies include people that didn't commit a crime because of the punishment then there is no way to tell if a punishment is a deterrent or not. I for one fall under that catagory as I showed in a previous post. Those studies will never mention people like me.
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  9. #649
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    My view does. By taking the murderers life we are upholding the highest value for the life they took. By exacting the highest price we are affirming that taking an innocent life is the gravest of crimes.
    It makes no sense to uphold the value of human life by arbitrarily taking human lives.

  10. #650
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    It sucks that the offender killed and that they are to be killed but that does not negate the rightness of killing the offender I guess I cannot understand the dissonance you express in this quote. If it is right then why is it barbaric to watch? The act is barbaric, hiding it shows shame over that act.

    Shame can be seen as a deeply disturbing or painful feeling of guilt, incompetence, indecency, or blame-worthiness. When we see someone suffer because of a decision we made, we do feel shame. We don't always express that, we try to hide that we feel shame, because that would mean we are guilty. Death and dying is very sanitized these days and it is not often that people get to see or know what happens.

    The descriptions of the last day on death row are mostly anecdotes about the prisoner. They do not discuss how the guards feels, the warden, other prisoners, spiritual advisers. There is little mention of having to subdue to prisoner, inserting the anal plug and catheter (why do we do this -- to keep the process clean), the smell of fear coming from everyone involved that are walking the "last mile". There are so many questions, with not many answers provided, it is kept that way so we do not feel the shame of what we have done, so we can keep on going like nothing has happened. Is it ethical to turn a blind eye on something shameful?
    You seem to be of the belief that everyone feels shame over executing people, but that is wrong.

    Isn't it barbaric to watch soldiers killing during war/combat? Would it be okay to have a camera go around with a combat unit every minute of every day for a year just to show the killings as entertainment? Does that make all war and all combat shameful?
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