View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #631
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    You should take a more Amish approach to retribution.
    Don't know what their approach would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    The documentation is real. You could see "prevention" as a reduction in violent crime. By comparing states with DP versus states with no DP, deterrence should reveal less violent crime/murder in states with DP.
    But it doesn't mean that there will be a reduction in crime. It is quite possible that a non-DP or DP state just has more or less people that are mentally capable of being serial killers/rapists. There are so many variables that a straight comparison of a non-DP vs a DP state is worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    To me, I don't even need documentation. It's pretty obvious that the vast majority of killers don't care so much about life, not even their own.
    You could apply the same type of reasoning to any crime. So prison must not be much a deterent either considering the amount of people we have in prison.
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  2. #632
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    Re: Death Penalty

    It has been known for some time that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent.

    States With No Death Penalty Share Lower Homicide Rates | Death Penalty Information Center

    Studies done in the US and other countries bear that out. Sometimes it has an opposite effect. People see the notoriety the convict received, or just want to die. One also has to realize that many murders are murders of opportunity, they would not have been committed if the circumstances did not present themselves. It ends up being the heinousness of an act or other crimes committed during the scenario that lead to a charge of murder 1, not necessarily premeditation.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
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  3. #633
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I've been in jail, sorry but it didn't bother me in the slightest. 3 meals a day, a bed, tv, all the books I could read and didn't have to do a thing.
    Sorry....still ain't buying it. I doubt seriously that you thought...."hmmm....I sure would like to kill that guy....and I would....except there is the possibility that I might face execution it I do, so ...with that in mind, I think that I won't do it". Sorry......
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #634
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Don't know what their approach would be.
    Amish school shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But it doesn't mean that there will be a reduction in crime. It is quite possible that a non-DP or DP state just has more or less people that are mentally capable of being serial killers/rapists. There are so many variables that a straight comparison of a non-DP vs a DP state is worthless.
    You cannot make a substantiated claim that the death penalty is a deterrent unless you can prove it. Period. In a formal debate about the purpose and usefulness of the death penalty, evidence does matter. And if it doesn't exist, or as you claim, it can never exist, then such a reason must not be used as a defense of the DP.

  5. #635
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry....still ain't buying it. I doubt seriously that you thought...."hmmm....I sure would like to kill that guy....and I would....except there is the possibility that I might face execution it I do, so ...with that in mind, I think that I won't do it". Sorry......
    Funny how people "doubt" another persons word just because it doesn't suit their beliefs. You can doubt it all that you want but the DP is precisely why I didn't torture and kill that person.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  6. #636
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Good thing I'm not Amish. Turning the other cheek was never my strong suit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    You cannot make a substantiated claim that the death penalty is a deterrent unless you can prove it. Period. In a formal debate about the purpose and usefulness of the death penalty, evidence does matter. And if it doesn't exist, or as you claim, it can never exist, then such a reason must not be used as a defense of the DP.
    Nor can it be used against the DP. Of course that doesn't mean that people won't use studies based on false premises right? As such making the statements that I did is a perfectly valid form of showing why those studies are false.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #637
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Good thing I'm not Amish. Turning the other cheek was never my strong suit.
    A violent retribution would put the victim on the same level as the offender.

    Nor can it be used against the DP. Of course that doesn't mean that people won't use studies based on false premises right? As such making the statements that I did is a perfectly valid form of showing why those studies are false.
    You cannot use an absence of proof to justify the means.

  8. #638
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    A violent retribution would put the victim on the same level as the offender.
    Sometimes that is acceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    You cannot use an absence of proof to justify the means.
    Nor can you use false proof to justify the means.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #639
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Nor can it be used against the DP. Of course that doesn't mean that people won't use studies based on false premises right? As such making the statements that I did is a perfectly valid form of showing why those studies are false.
    What studies are you speaking of? and how, other than through opinion did you "prove" them false?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  10. #640
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Sometimes that is acceptable.
    It is never acceptable, with the sole exception being self-defense. Torturing a man to death, regardless of who it is, is no more dignified than molesting children.

    Nor can you use false proof to justify the means.
    It is not false proof, but evidence that can be used legitimately to deteriorate the deterrent claim. It is not full-proof, but the primary burden of proof rests with those who make the claim.

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