View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #541
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    It is legal murder.......
    There is no such thing, NP.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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  2. #542
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Perhaps we are using legitimize a bit differently. What they don't do is make it illegal. Therefore it's not murder. I believe it's unjust....but then I believe several legal things are unjust.
    Nothing is made "illegal" by the UN or these conventions. We don't even adhere to the ICC.

  3. #543
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    Nothing is made "illegal" by the UN or these conventions. We don't even adhere to the ICC.
    So, therefore, by that logic, the death penalty is not murder.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  4. #544
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    So, therefore, by that logic, the death penalty is not murder.
    It is YOUR logic. So, yes, the death penalty is not murder. By that same logic, homicide is not murder.

  5. #545
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    So, therefore, by that logic, the death penalty is not murder.
    You may have been able to effectively demonstrate that the Nazis murdered their own people...

    But you have yet to respond to the numerous other examples I have given. According to your logic, the Nazis murdered, and the Stalinists did not?

  6. #546
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    It is YOUR logic. So, yes, the death penalty is not murder. By that same logic, homicide is not murder.
    Homicide is the killing of one human by another. Technically, that can include self defense, though in common usage it is synonymous with murder.

    btw, it's not MY logic. It's just logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    You may have been able to effectively demonstrate that the Nazis murdered their own people...

    But you have yet to respond to the numerous other examples I have given. According to your logic, the Nazis murdered, and the Stalinists did not?
    I haven't said that Stalinists did not murder.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  7. #547
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Homicide is the killing of one human by another. Technically, that can include self defense, though in common usage it is synonymous with murder.

    btw, it's not MY logic. It's just logic.
    Your logic is flawed, given that you conveniently use international standards even when those standards are not necessarily explicit.

    And again, if you really want to be strict in your logical undertakings, the Nazis did not murder and they did not commit genocide because those standards were implemented AFTER the fact.

    I haven't said that Stalinists did not murder.
    No, but your logic would dictate that they did not murder.

  8. #548
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    Your logic is flawed, given that you conveniently use international standards even when those standards are not necessarily explicit.

    And again, if you really want to be strict in your logical undertakings, the Nazis did not murder and they did not commit genocide because those standards were implemented AFTER the fact.
    My logic is not flawed. Murder is an illegal killing. It's really that simple. The only reason we are talking about international law is because you brought up the Nazis, and genocide existed despite not being recognized as a distinct crime.

    No, but your logic would dictate that they did not murder.
    Negligent homicide is murder. By any standard, a government killing it's people who have committed no crime and have not been so convicted in any court is illegal.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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  9. #549
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    My logic is not flawed. Murder is an illegal killing. It's really that simple. The only reason we are talking about international law is because you brought up the Nazis, and genocide existed despite not being recognized as a distinct crime.
    The Nazi killings were legal under their own state laws. There was no international law condemning genocide at the time, so your entire argument falls apart for two reasons. First, laws regarding crime and punishment are served at the national and state level NOT the international level. Second, there was no convention or standard on genocide during the holocaust. Your logic dictates that in order for something to be murder, it has to be illegal under the law. Ergo, there was no law (whether looking at state or international) at that time.

    Negligent homicide is murder. By any standard, a government killing it's people who have committed no crime and have not been so convicted in any court is illegal.
    Negligent homicide is a completely separate issue. And we're not talking about standards or guidelines, but LAWS. There was no law which made Stalin's reign of terror illegal.

  10. #550
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    The Nazi killings were legal under their own state laws.
    Which were deemed inconsistent with international law, and more importantly, considered war crimes.

    There was no international law condemning genocide at the time, so your entire argument falls apart for two reasons. First, laws regarding crime and punishment are served at the national and state level NOT the international level. Second, there was no convention or standard on genocide during the holocaust. Your logic dictates that in order for something to be murder, it has to be illegal under the law. Ergo, there was no law (whether looking at state or international) at that time.
    Whether or not genocide was recognized or not doesn't change the status of Nazi actions as war crimes.

    Negligent homicide is a completely separate issue. And we're not talking about standards or guidelines, but LAWS. There was no law which made Stalin's reign of terror illegal.
    No it isn't. It's murder, and there is law against it. International law prohibits the death penalty without conviction in a court.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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