View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #481
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Judges decisions are not made arbitrarily. Arbitrary is like when the Red Queen said, "Off with her head!". The restrictions of working within state and federal laws and appeals to other courts which are part and parcel of the process makes the claim nonsense by any definition.
    I believe it is arbitrary. Looking at the definition you provided, there are many situations that can determine arbitrariness. In sentencing and appellate decisions it is left up to a judge, who may be biased and is not allowed to consider all the information available. Some of it has been excluded due to various rulings and law.

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  2. #482
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    This is where we disagree. If something is illegal, or murder as you stated, there would not be guidelines for its use as you pointed out above.

    This seems like it could become one of those never-ending exchanges which I am not disposed to. I really don't want to quibble about semantics, but I have found your statement above to be erroneous not only on the article, but also factually incorrect.
    I misread a statement and immediately admitted to the correction. Other than that, there is NOTHING factually incorrect about what was referenced. You may disagree with my opinions, but up till now, I haven't made any erroneous statements that have not been immediately corrected. And to my defense, it was only a misreading of two different international conventions. Both of them want the death penalty to be abolished worldwide. And I have already explained that these "guidelines" are only there to ensure no abuse of power takes place.

    Besides, I was responding to mac, not you. Mac originally argued that a state-sanctioned killing is not murder, to which I directed him to the Nazis killing undesirables as murder. He then brought up international law which acknowledged those killings as murder. In turn, I brought up various international conventions. One of those conventions materialized with the UDHR, a direct consequence of the trials of WW2 and Nazi Germany.

  3. #483
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    What is your point? The convention only made such caveat in order to ensure that power was not abused in countries with a death penalty. They still would rather prefer no death penalties. You really can't ignore the "inherent right to life" rule.

    Also, in many states (I believe it is more than 20), we do execute juveniles and/or mentally retarded individuals.

    Also, since when do we dictate our laws based on the whims of the international community? You're conveniently using international law to prove that state-sanctioned killing is murder in certain circumstances, while ignoring state-sanctioned killing in our own country.
    It clearly says that the death penalty is not illegal in countries that have not abolished it. Therefore, our death penalty is not murder or illegal according to international law.

    That is my point.
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  4. #484
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It clearly says that the death penalty is not illegal in countries that have not abolished it. Therefore, our death penalty is not murder or illegal according to international law.

    That is my point.
    It said no such thing. Like our constitution, the UDHR gives explicit guidelines that are not always followed. What else do you infer from "EVERY human being has an inherent right to life?"

    Also, consider the fact that you brought up the international consensus regarding Nazi war crimes, while the UDHR was inspired largely because of those crimes and was even adopted on the same day as the genocide convention.

  5. #485
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It clearly says that the death penalty is not illegal in countries that have not abolished it.
    That is my point.
    This proves my original point. The death penalty is not illegal in certain countries, but that is not legislated by a world power. Instead, it is left to the individual countries. Likewise, the Nazi extermination of Jews (or, if you need another example which wasn't punished by any UN resolution, you can look at the Stalin campaign to systematically starve Ukrainians) was legal under that nation's laws.

  6. #486
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yes, for certain murders. There are some crimes people can commit that are so heinous the perps forfeit their right to life, in my opinion. These "certain murders" might include, off the top of my head, the murder of a child and serial killers. If I thought about it longer, I could probably come up with a longer list. But rarely.

    Let most of them rot in jail and die alone without family and friends at their sides. Lethal injection? Much too easy. Hell, I'd like that way out, and I haven't killed anybody.
    The problem with your scenario is if you lock them up for life, even without parole there are instances down the road where some liberal judge has decided they have been reabilitated and released them to rape and muder again.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  7. #487
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    Re: Death Penalty

    I not only believe in the death penalty for all capital crimes but it should be expanded to include certain criminal convicted of rape and child abuse.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  8. #488
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Does anyone but me find it ironic that alot of our friends on the left are so adament against the death penalty for people who have raped and murdered but have no problem with butchering 42,0000,000 innocent, defenseless infants in the womb since Roe V Wade was passed?

    Does anyone see a double standard but me?
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  9. #489
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Does anyone but me find it ironic that alot of our friends on the left are so adament against the death penalty for people who have raped and murdered but have no problem with butchering 42,0000,000 innocent, defenseless infants in the womb since Roe V Wade was passed?

    Does anyone see a double standard but me?
    as a hated leftist on this board I support the death penalty and have posted this many times
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  10. #490
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Does anyone but me find it ironic that alot of our friends on the left are so adament against the death penalty for people who have raped and murdered but have no problem with butchering 42,0000,000 innocent, defenseless infants in the womb since Roe V Wade was passed?

    Does anyone see a double standard but me?
    There is no contradiction. An embryo is not an infant. One has to deal with women's right to own her own body and decide what she wishes to do with it, and the other deals with a government overstepping its boundaries in order to decide who lives and who dies.

    Is it a contradiction to be pro-life and simultaneously pro-death?

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