View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

Voters
138. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
Page 48 of 82 FirstFirst ... 38464748495058 ... LastLast
Results 471 to 480 of 819

Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #471
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It was determined that their actions were murder in accordance with international law. It was a war crime, and illegal. Murder.
    The majority of countries have eliminated the death penalty or put it under a moratorium. And, according to the UDHR (Article 1), our death penalty is illegal and therefore murder.

  2. #472
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Prague, Czech Rep.
    Last Seen
    10-10-12 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,880

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    The majority of countries have eliminated the death penalty or put it under a moratorium. And, according to the UDHR (Article 1), our death penalty is illegal and therefore murder.
    Article 1

    All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

    ???

  3. #473
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Article 1

    All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

    ???
    I misread. In the UDHR, it is article 3, not article 1.

    What I read came from a different source:

    "Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life."

    —Article 6.1 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

  4. #474
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Prague, Czech Rep.
    Last Seen
    10-10-12 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,880

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    I misread. In the UDHR, it is article 3, not article 1.

    What I read came from a different source:

    "Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life."

    —Article 6.1 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
    Arbitrary | What is the Definition of Arbitrary? | Dictionary.com

    Death sentences may be many things, but hardly arbitrary at least in the US.

  5. #475
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Arbitrary | What is the Definition of Arbitrary? | Dictionary.com

    Death sentences may be many things, but hardly arbitrary at least in the US.
    Of course they are arbitrary. It is up to the discretion of a judge (i.e. individual). The jury simply makes a recommendation.

    This doesn't deviate from the point of either the UDHR article 3 or ICCPR article 6.1

    It also doesn't disprove the point I made against mac.

  6. #476
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Prague, Czech Rep.
    Last Seen
    10-10-12 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,880

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    Of course they are arbitrary. It is up to the discretion of a judge (i.e. individual). The jury simply makes a recommendation.

    This doesn't deviate from the point of either the UDHR article 3 or ICCPR article 6.1

    It also doesn't disprove the point I made against mac.
    Judges decisions are not made arbitrarily. Arbitrary is like when the Red Queen said, "Off with her head!". The restrictions of working within state and federal laws and appeals to other courts which are part and parcel of the process makes the claim nonsense by any definition.

  7. #477
    Sage
    mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    DC Metro
    Last Seen
    11-13-16 @ 12:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    22,499

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    I misread. In the UDHR, it is article 3, not article 1.

    What I read came from a different source:

    "Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life."

    —Article 6.1 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
    Article 6

    Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.
    In countries which have not abolished the death penalty, sentence of death may be imposed only for the most serious crimes in accordance with the law in force at the time of the commission of the crime and not contrary to the provisions of the present Covenant and to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. This penalty can only be carried out pursuant to a final judgment rendered by a competent court.
    When deprivation of life constitutes the crime of genocide, it is understood that nothing in this article shall authorize any State Party to the present Covenant to derogate in any way from any obligation assumed under the provisions of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
    Anyone sentenced to death shall have the right to seek pardon or commutation of the sentence. Amnesty, pardon or commutation of the sentence of death may be granted in all cases.
    Sentence of death shall not be imposed for crimes committed by persons below eighteen years of age and shall not be carried out on pregnant women.
    Nothing in this article shall be invoked to delay or to prevent the abolition of capital punishment by any State Party to the present Covenant.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #478
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Judges decisions are not made arbitrarily. Arbitrary is like when the Red Queen said, "Off with her head!". The restrictions of working within state and federal laws and appeals to other courts which are part and parcel of the process makes the claim nonsense by any definition.
    Again, we're picking at semantic issues within a broader context.

    I believe you and I are both correct on this. While judges are subject to certain limitations and guidelines, they are free to make the ultimate decision. The purpose of the court of appeals is really only to ensure the law was carried out during the trial, not necessarily to judge the appropriateness of sentencing.

  9. #479
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Article 6

    Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.
    In countries which have not abolished the death penalty, sentence of death may be imposed only for the most serious crimes in accordance with the law in force at the time of the commission of the crime and not contrary to the provisions of the present Covenant and to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. This penalty can only be carried out pursuant to a final judgment rendered by a competent court.
    When deprivation of life constitutes the crime of genocide, it is understood that nothing in this article shall authorize any State Party to the present Covenant to derogate in any way from any obligation assumed under the provisions of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
    Anyone sentenced to death shall have the right to seek pardon or commutation of the sentence. Amnesty, pardon or commutation of the sentence of death may be granted in all cases.
    Sentence of death shall not be imposed for crimes committed by persons below eighteen years of age and shall not be carried out on pregnant women.
    Nothing in this article shall be invoked to delay or to prevent the abolition of capital punishment by any State Party to the present Covenant.
    What is your point? The convention only made such caveat in order to ensure that power was not abused in countries with a death penalty. They still would rather prefer no death penalties. You really can't ignore the "inherent right to life" rule.

    Also, in many states (I believe it is more than 20), we do execute juveniles and/or mentally retarded individuals.

    Also, since when do we dictate our laws based on the whims of the international community? You're conveniently using international law to prove that state-sanctioned killing is murder in certain circumstances, while ignoring state-sanctioned killing in our own country.

  10. #480
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Prague, Czech Rep.
    Last Seen
    10-10-12 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,880

    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    The majority of countries have eliminated the death penalty or put it under a moratorium. And, according to the UDHR (Article 1), our death penalty is illegal and therefore murder.
    This is where we disagree. If something is illegal, or murder as you stated, there would not be guidelines for its use as you pointed out above.

    This seems like it could become one of those never-ending exchanges which I am not disposed to. I really don't want to quibble about semantics, but I have found your statement above to be erroneous not only on the article, but also factually incorrect.

Page 48 of 82 FirstFirst ... 38464748495058 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •