View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #451
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Stop playing stupid word games. If it's state-sanctioned, it cannot, by definition, be murder. Words have meanings for a reason.
    Word games? Serious? Just because it is "state-sanctioned" does not mean that it is not murder. It simply makes it state-sanctioned murder. It actually is state-sanctioned first degree murder because it is deliberate and premeditated.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  2. #452
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    BTW for tankgirl, Murder is to kill an INNOCENT person. Therefore to execute someone for commiting murder is not murder in and of itself.
    I have never seen a murder statute that defines Murder as the killing of an "INNOCENT" Person. Just because you make it up...does not mean that it is the law.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #453
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Are you not responding for any particular reason? Defeated even before it begins?
    Were you asking if I wasn't repsonding to them or you? I have not repsonded to you because in the post where you finally addressed issues concerning the DP you began with the beginning of life again. You know my stance on abortion and the "life" issue and you just had to poke once more. Until you can discuss the DP as its own independent crisis, with very real concerns and consequences.

    This is how you opened your post after I said I did not wish to discuss those items for the 4th time and tried to redirect you to the subject of the post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post


    human being
    noun
    1. any individual of the genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens.
    2. a person, especially as distinguished from other animals or as representing the human species: living conditions not fit for human beings; a very generous human being.


    Human being | Define Human being at Dictionary.com

    life
    /laɪf/ Show Spelled [lahyf] Show IPA noun, plural lives  /laɪvz/ Show Spelled[lahyvz] Show IPA, adjective
    noun
    1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.


    Life | Define Life at Dictionary.com

    I always laugh when I see comments like yours. It is a life. Fact. It is of the species Homo Sapian and we call that human. Fact. It is a human life.

    And before you get too confused once the sperm meets the egg the human life is indeed an individual life form up for person status just as conjoined twins are considered individual persons. You want valid arguments and make pathetic threats yet you just responded with essentially nothing more than a "nu-huh" rebuttal. Well done.
    That is not the beginning of a discussion on the death penalty.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
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    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  4. #454
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Word games? Serious? Just because it is "state-sanctioned" does not mean that it is not murder. It simply makes it state-sanctioned murder. It actually is state-sanctioned first degree murder because it is deliberate and premeditated.
    The very definition of murder means that it is a killing that is unlawful.

    Murder | Define Murder at Dictionary.com
    murder legal definition of murder. murder synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    As long as the DP is legal, then it is not murder. You can believe it is an unjustified killing or want it to be murder, but it doesn't change the fact that legally, the DP cannot be murder if it is state-sanctioned.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #455
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    For John and Cephus:

    Language is fluid, like changes in life. Language changes depending on the who, what, when, where and why of it's context and on who is interpreting it. I never said there was a "standard". Depending on whose definition you look at "murder" is "to kill".
    John-- if we hang on to your definition then tell me how we "prove" 100% that the person is guilty.

    As far as I am concerned the government should not be killing someone in my name, the argument is ridiculous that killing is wrong and then you go and kill. Inflamatory or not-- the state sanctions these "killings",l to me they are murder.

    Now, what about arguments for or against the DP instead of semantics?
    But the argument the state makes is not "killing is wrong". The laws are based on one citizen taking away another citizen's right to life without a valid reason (determined by laws) or due process. The state says that killing people for reasons not allowed by law is wrong. It is a subtle but definite distinction.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #456
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But the argument the state makes is not "killing is wrong". The laws are based on one citizen taking away another citizen's right to life without a valid reason (determined by laws) or due process. The state says that killing people for reasons not allowed by law is wrong. It is a subtle but definite distinction.
    So... there are rules for killing? The state has decided that killing is wrong, it is murder (some states have Castle Laws that allow for deadly force in self defense and some states do not, some states accept battered persons defenses, some do not) and in order for that state (or fed) to prove that they mean it (killing is wrong), the consequence -- not punishment, because it is never fairly or evenly applied -- is being killed? "Killing is wrong, but I will kill to show you that killing is wrong" What? Premeditated killing is murder, it does not matter to me that you may not think so, I do and that is my opinion. We shall have to agree to disagree on this one.

    The DP exists for a variety of reasons:
    1. Punishment - if you really want to argue semantics this is where to do it as the basic justifications for any form of punishment are deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation, restoration and incapacitation. I will list them separately here because most people do not think of "punishment" this way.
    2. Deterrence
    3. Retribution / revenge, whatever you would like to call it
    4. Closure (we can see this as restoration -- or "righting the wrong" for the families)
    (there's another one I will mention but not list -- I recently read that it is "good for the environment" --oh the lengths we will go to....)

    Again -- instead of semantics why don't we discuss the issues that make up the death penalty? I have listed a few above -- what are some others?
    Last edited by taxigirl; 03-15-12 at 06:09 AM.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  7. #457
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Word games? Serious? Just because it is "state-sanctioned" does not mean that it is not murder. It simply makes it state-sanctioned murder. It actually is state-sanctioned first degree murder because it is deliberate and premeditated.
    If it's legal, it's not murder...however unjust it is.
    ĒPeople willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.Ē --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #458
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    So... there are rules for killing? The state has decided that killing is wrong, it is murder (some states have Castle Laws that allow for deadly force in self defense and some states do not, some states accept battered persons defenses, some do not) and in order for that state (or fed) to prove that they mean it (killing is wrong), the consequence -- not punishment, because it is never fairly or evenly applied -- is being killed? "Killing is wrong, but I will kill to show you that killing is wrong" What? Premeditated killing is murder, it does not matter to me that you may not think so, I do and that is my opinion. We shall have to agree to disagree on this one.

    The DP exists for a variety of reasons:
    1. Punishment - if you really want to argue semantics this is where to do it as the basic justifications for any form of punishment are deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation, restoration and incapacitation. I will list them separately here because most people do not think of "punishment" this way.
    2. Deterrence
    3. Retribution / revenge, whatever you would like to call it
    4. Closure (we can see this as restoration -- or "righting the wrong" for the families)
    (there's another one I will mention but not list -- I recently read that it is "good for the environment" --oh the lengths we will go to....)

    Again -- instead of semantics why don't we discuss the issues that make up the death penalty? I have listed a few above -- what are some others?
    It's not just semantics....saying that the Death Penalty is state sanctioned murder is an appeal to emotion. A talking point, and more importantly...untrue. Making such statements hurts your cause if your cause is to actually change minds. I believe the death penalty is wrong, unjust, and little more than revenge. It's not murder, though.
    ĒPeople willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.Ē --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  9. #459
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Definition of MURDER - Webster
    1
    : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

    Murder - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

  10. #460
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    Re: Death Penalty

    The old saying, "An eye for an eye" works for me.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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