View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #291
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Killing is bad as deemed by society. The societal standard to denote the ugliness of the act is "murder," which signifies premeditation. The awfulness of murder is directly linked to the level-headed, methodical planning of executing a goal to kill.

    The purpose of the legal system is to convert values into law with the purpose of ensconcing a value system into a society and culture.

    I feel the legalization of hypocritical policy should be avoided, for it debases the value system that decries murder is bad. Legalizing something doesn't make it right; it's merely made legal.

    Legalized state killings are murders. In fact, of the two types of murder, i.e., first-degree and second-degree, state murder is the most legally heinous version - first-degree murder, which is done with deliberation.

    The ethics that accompany the precept that murder is bad do not disappear b/c a circumstance of murder (state murder) is made legal. It is bad b/c murder is a level of control over individuality that wholly exceeds any other form of oppression.

    Capital Punishment is a law based on revenge rather than societal safety; it is the execution of an imprisoned and impotent offender, and, therefore, exceeds government's role to protect and defend.


    And if you need more, there is always the argument that there is no coming back from death. A carried out death sentence is final, and, yet, the judicial system is imperfect.

    Also, eyewitness unreliability has been well documented. Cases solely based on eyewitness accounts should certainly not lead to death. For examples of the unreliability of eyewitness accounts, go to the below links.


    Visual Expert Human Factors: Eyewitness Memory Is Unreliable

    Eyes (and Minds) Deceive: Witness Unreliability Casts Doubt on Death Penalty Rulings | Observations, Scientific American Blog Network

  2. #292
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. I want to keep the death penalty because it is justice. I was refuting the argument that innocent people die from the death penalty. Innocent people die from just from being in prison, so it is a faulty argument.
    But the jail system in general provides significant safety for society at large. There is a real need for jail not just from a government standpoint, but for the individual standpoint as well. There needs to be a system in place through which we can protect the rights and liberties of the individual and a judicial system is part of that. What would happen if we got rid of jails?

    Now what about the death penalty. We already have jails. Yes people die in them, there's likely A LOT of reform which needs to also happen with our jail system. Not going to argue against that. But the death penalty is on top of that. What does it offer society? Increased safety? No. Deterrent? No. Saved costs? No. What happens if we get rid of the death penalty? Are people going to go crazy, will there be no way to protect the law abiding citizens of the land? No. The death penalty provides us with nothing functional except higher bills. And it consumes innocent life.

    So now we have a system being endorsed which not only provides no net benefit to society on whole, but which in fact costs us more and costs human life (both "guilty" and innocent). And you're argument is "well it's ok to kill these people because people are killed in prisons all the time anyway". Forgive me if I am unswayed by such lackluster logic. Innocent people can and do end in jail as well, we are absent perfect knowledge. Part of this is the power usurped by the courts and laws which give the government much more leverage than they had before. But then your argument is that we should kill them because it's worse to leave them alive for decades in which there could always be a chance of being exonerated and freed on new evidence. Again, lackluster logic.

    In the end, there is no rational argument for the death penalty. It's functionally useless, it's expensive, it consumes innocent life. Anyone calling for the overall use of such system must do so with the knowledge that they are advocating the consumption of that innocent life. It's part and parcel with the system.
    Last edited by Ikari; 03-10-12 at 08:49 AM.
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  3. #293
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    To the bolded: Not in this country. Otherwise, we wouldn't see such a high rate of repeat offenses, reconviction, and reimprisonment after release. I am not sadistic. I do not wish to see a murderer suffer for years, when the just punishment for his crime could be expedient death.
    I meant, life imprisonment. Some years in prison is undoubtedly much lenient than death, and it also depends on the jail. Federal? State? Depends, and federal prison is in most cases, better than life on the streets
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Death Penalty yes, but currently we do it stupid - it isn't a deterrent. Reducing the average wait time from 12-15 years to 12-15 weeks and then having public executions would be much more effective. My Boy Joe Who F***ing Stood Up To The Man And Wasted A F***ing Cop isn't such an emulation-worthy badass when everyone get's to watch him cry, beg for his life, and then crap all over himself.

  5. #295
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Death Penalty yes, but currently we do it stupid - it isn't a deterrent. Reducing the average wait time from 12-15 years to 12-15 weeks and then having public executions would be much more effective. My Boy Joe Who F***ing Stood Up To The Man And Wasted A F***ing Cop isn't such an emulation-worthy badass when everyone get's to watch him cry, beg for his life, and then crap all over himself.
    The appeals process is far too important to compress into such a short time period, especially when innocent people have been executed having far more opportunity and time to build a defense. Mob rule isn't the answer.

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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    The appeals process is far too important to compress into such a short time period, especially when innocent people have been executed having far more opportunity and time to build a defense. Mob rule isn't the answer.
    I remember that in WWI, British soldiers were given 20 minutes to 1 hour to plead their lives in court martial.
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  7. #297
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    Re: Death Penalty

    One facet of this that I have never understood is how conservatives, who are generally Christians, reconcile their defense of the DP with the theology of the Christian religion.

    There were the concepts of "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" espoused in the Old Testament, but in Christian theology, Christ's death on the cross ushered in a New Covenant- a new set of laws, wherein forgiveness and mercy were of the utmost importance. Christ had already died for the sins of each person. I don't know of any New Testament reference to the DP that would lead me to believe it was justifiable for Christians to support it.

    One of the most recent scheduled executions in Georgia (which was stayed) was that of Nicholas Cody Tate who killed a lady and a little girl in 2001. The victims' family expressed anger, vindictiveness- almost hatred toward the condemned, and when his execution was stayed because he finally, at the last minute, excercised his right to appeal, they were even angrier.

    I don't see vindictiveness, anger, and hatred as emotions that are godly according to Christian tenets. I just don't get how the two reconcile. Most Christians in Georgia are pro-DP, but it contradicts the most basic beliefs of the religion.

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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    One facet of this that I have never understood is how conservatives, who are generally Christians, reconcile their defense of the DP with the theology of the Christian religion.

    There were the concepts of "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" espoused in the Old Testament, but in Christian theology, Christ's death on the cross ushered in a New Covenant- a new set of laws, wherein forgiveness and mercy were of the utmost importance. Christ had already died for the sins of each person. I don't know of any New Testament reference to the DP that would lead me to believe it was justifiable for Christians to support it.

    One of the most recent scheduled executions in Georgia (which was stayed) was that of Nicholas Cody Tate who killed a lady and a little girl in 2001. The victims' family expressed anger, vindictiveness- almost hatred toward the condemned, and when his execution was stayed because he finally, at the last minute, excercised his right to appeal, they were even angrier.

    I don't see vindictiveness, anger, and hatred as emotions that are godly according to Christian tenets. I just don't get how the two reconcile. Most Christians in Georgia are pro-DP, but it contradicts the most basic beliefs of the religion.
    If Christ died for our sins, why shouldn't some scumbag die for his own? A bit of a disconnect there

  9. #299
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    If Christ died for our sins, why shouldn't some scumbag die for his own? A bit of a disconnect there
    I believe the point that was made is that a main tenet of christian belief is that forgiveness and mercy are virtues and core to christianity.

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  10. #300
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I believe the point that was made is that a main tenet of christian belief is that forgiveness and mercy are virtues and core to christianity.
    Man's legal system isn't part of the Christian belief system.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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