View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #271
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Which would then mean that all life is not sacred.
    Most people who hold the pro-life, pro-capital punishment stance do not believe that life is sacred. If they did, then they would scorn abortion, capital punishment, and economic injustice (e.g. poverty).

    There is a stance which views human life to be sacred, but it has an exclusively left-wing economic agenda. It is called the Consistent Life Ethic.
    Last edited by JustinS; 03-08-12 at 09:41 PM.

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    Re: Death Penalty

    delete............

  3. #273
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So, in other words, screw it they'll probably die in prison anyway so just electrocute 'em? I have a feeling that if you were wrongly convicted for a crime and faced the death penalty, your view would be quite different.
    Who do you think is more likely to get exonerated, the innocent guy sitting on death row for 15 - 20 years, who is guaranteed at least one appeal, but could have many, or the guy sitting on LWOP, who may or may not get an appeal and who many won't care nearly as much about since he is not scheduled to die? Many people only protest executions because it is the DP. There are lots of people who could care less if those same guys they are pushing to not face the DP are innocent or guilty, they simply are against the DP.

    Yet, his chances may be increased to getting killed by a fellow inmate if he is LWOP instead of facing the DP. Do you think the other guys in prison will give 2 shakes if the guy is really innocent?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #274
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because absolutely everyone who believes abortions are wrong, particularly as a form of BC, believes it because all life is sacred?

    Some believe that these are two different issues. Two different reasons to be for/against these things.
    I never said "everyone who believes abortions are wrong also think all life is sacred".

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
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  5. #275
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    Most people who hold the pro-life, pro-capital punishment stance do not believe that life is sacred. If they did, then they would scorn abortion, capital punishment, and economic injustice (e.g. poverty).

    There is a stance which views human life to be sacred, but it has an exclusively left-wing economic agenda. It is called the Consistent Life Ethic.
    I never said "everyone who believes abortions are wrong also think all life is sacred". and by your various posts I see you are trying to bring an agenda other than life and the death penalty into this. The question is should there be a death penalty. Economics does play a factor in who gets tried and convicted in our criminal justice system, but I think that is a whole different thread.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    “Reading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.”
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  6. #276
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    By "liberal-democratic idealism", I mean aiming to achieve a world in which countries are all democratically governed such that elections are free and fair (e.g. the proposition "Toppling down enemy regimes to spread democracy will make the world a better place").
    Gotcha. Although, I think taking "liberal" out of the equation would probably make it seem less partisan and fit both Bush and Obama's policies.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  7. #277
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Gotcha. Although, I think taking "liberal" out of the equation would probably make it seem less partisan and fit both Bush and Obama's policies.
    I'm not referring to "liberal" in the American sense though - generally the entire scope of the ideology (ranging from both classical to modern liberalism) favors idealist measures to spread democracy ("liberal-democracy" simply refers to free and fair elections).

  8. #278
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Who do you think is more likely to get exonerated, the innocent guy sitting on death row for 15 - 20 years, who is guaranteed at least one appeal, but could have many, or the guy sitting on LWOP, who may or may not get an appeal and who many won't care nearly as much about since he is not scheduled to die? Many people only protest executions because it is the DP. There are lots of people who could care less if those same guys they are pushing to not face the DP are innocent or guilty, they simply are against the DP.
    So, if the death penalty goes away, people start caring about the LWOP guys right? I mean, the fear of innocents being executed is gone, time to concentrate on the guy rotting in Cell block A right? That's how that works.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yet, his chances may be increased to getting killed by a fellow inmate if he is LWOP instead of facing the DP. Do you think the other guys in prison will give 2 shakes if the guy is really innocent?
    Okay, this fantasy argument has gone on long enough. Do you have proof of your claims about the life expectancy of a prisoner of death row or LWOP? If not, the argument's a fallacy. I proved my point with stats, time for you to ante up.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #279
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    I'm not referring to "liberal" in the American sense though - generally the entire scope of the ideology (ranging from both classical to modern liberalism) favors idealist measures to spread democracy ("liberal-democracy" simply refers to free and fair elections).
    I know your intent. Just saying, for the masses, it would be less perceived as partisan if you removed liberal. Just trying to help you out.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #280
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So, if the death penalty goes away, people start caring about the LWOP guys right? I mean, the fear of innocents being executed is gone, time to concentrate on the guy rotting in Cell block A right? That's how that works.
    Some will, but certainly not nearly as many as before since many of the people care nothing about whether the guys actually are innocent or not, but rather just keeping the people from being executed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Okay, this fantasy argument has gone on long enough. Do you have proof of your claims about the life expectancy of a prisoner of death row or LWOP? If not, the argument's a fallacy. I proved my point with stats, time for you to ante up.
    In 2007, 42 total executions took place, 57 prisoners where killed in state prisons. Over 3,300 prisoners died of things other than execution that year. Odds are very good that a prisoner is less likely to be executed than they are to die of something else while in prison.

    A person who is awaiting the death penalty has a very good chance of having their case overturned on appeal (67%), non-capitol offenders much less (15%).

    Those awaiting the DP in almost every prison in the country are separated from general population and each other. LWOP prisoners are put into general population. Kinda hard to get killed by another prisoner if you have very little to no contact with them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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