View Poll Results: Should there be a death penalty?

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  • Yes

    65 47.10%
  • No

    53 38.41%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    20 14.49%
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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #241
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl
    What if that panhandler steps out and prevents that lawyer from missing the curb and being hit by a bus? What if that lawyer has his client who raped a 4 year old released? The rapist is now on the way to see another little girl. After that occurs the girl goes to the doctor who does a blood test and when then results come back HIV+ he does not tell the little girl and her family because he believes that HIV does not cause AIDS and that is a bunch of hooey. That little girl then grows up and has unprotected sex as a teenager because her school teaches abstinence only and she infects a boy with HIV, that boy was supposed to become a doctor who would cure pancreatic cancer. He dies young. Now you are sitting on your death bed with pancreatic cancer only four months after its diagnosis because it is pretty brutal wondering what you did in your good life that caused you to have this happen to you at such a young age. You then see that freed rapist on TV giving speeches on how to avoid HIV, hmm, how'd he get there?

    Who do you blame? Who is the better person here? The one who did contribute --the panhandler -- the one who would have contributed -- the young boy--, the one who ends up contributing -- the rapist-- , the one who almost died -- the lawyer, the side characters (those instituting the abstinence only policy) the good and bad one -- the doctor, OR The one sitting on a bed with pancreatic cancer, sitting in judgement of the rest of the world. Kind of weird to have all that power huh?
    Ah, excessive use of the words "what if". You sure are living up to that socialist tag.

    Try a valid argument instead of a bunch of non-sequiturs and idealist hippie bullcrap.

  2. #242
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    That sounds rational.
    Glad you approve.

  3. #243
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Ah, excessive use of the words "what if". You sure are living up to that socialist tag.

    Try a valid argument instead of a bunch of non-sequiturs and idealist hippie bullcrap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    No it's not. It's mathematics. It is completely logical to rationalize and impose some sort of static figure to a human being's value. A doctor has more purpose and a greater net benefit to society than a drug dealer. A lawyer (ugh) has more to give than a panhandler. I don't give a flipping DAMN what some men wrote down in the 18th century - if you think all men are equal, you're blind.
    .
    The non-sequitors you speak of are an example of what can happen in life when presented with the figures you gave me to work with. The logic is to look at a variety of possibilities. The chance you take in looking at things this way is finding out something about ourselves.

    If you want to see it as mathematics then know that certainty is never absolute in practice. My "what if's" are an example of chaos theory. Even a very small error in knowledge of initial conditions can result in arbitrarily large deviations from predicted behavior. Chaos theory thus explains why it may be practically impossible to predict real life, whether determinism is true or false. On the other hand, the issue may not be so much about human abilities to predict or attain certainty as much as it is the nature of reality itself.

    As for the personal attack... yes I am a goddamn dirty hippie.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
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  4. #244
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Going back a century, I will concede that. The rest are cases championed by anit-dp activist who search for anyone who is to be executed where there might me some discrepancy in the trial, ignoring all other evidence. This in no way proves innocence. Once convicted, the presumed innocent doctrine obviously no longer applies. In fact it is telling of the weakness of the argument that Willingham is the poster boy of the anti-dp crowd. He would have easily been convicted even without the arson forensics. The are courts and objective people do not automatically accept the findings of dp activists.
    I am for the death penalty, but I still think that Willingham was innocent. And there is very little chance that he would have been convicted without the arson forensics, since experts could show a definite doubt that arson even occurred.

    In order for anything to be a crime you must have intent and action together. Even if he may have wanted to kill his children or was happy that they died (which I really don't think is the case considering the conflicting/changing witness statements involved in his case), if there is doubt that the fire was intentionally set, then there is no crime, at least not one deserving the DP.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #245
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Not all of us look up to Jesus as the epitome of philosophical Right and Wrong. Some of us follow much older tenants. Even when I WAS a Christian, I couldn't find much redeeming value in the New Testament. The Old Testament always seemed to make a lot more sense to me.
    As I said before: My point was that even though I am not christian I can garner meaning from religious words, which hold true or express what my feelings are on a subject. On this subject I think turning the other cheek is more humane and imposing the death penalty is just as or even more animalistic than what the criminals have done.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  6. #246
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I am for the death penalty, but I still think that Willingham was innocent. And there is very little chance that he would have been convicted without the arson forensics, since experts could show a definite doubt that arson even occurred.
    Experts could not show doubt that arson occurred, definite or otherwise. They could simply not conclude that arson definitely occurred. These are two very different findings.

  7. #247
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Experts could not show doubt that arson occurred, definite or otherwise. They could simply not conclude that arson definitely occurred. These are two very different findings.
    Well if they cannot show that arson didn't occur, then they have no grounds to prosecute someone for the crime of arson, yes?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  8. #248
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    As I said before: My point was that even though I am not christian I can garner meaning from religious words, which hold true or express what my feelings are on a subject. On this subject I think turning the other cheek is more humane and imposing the death penalty is just as or even more animalistic than what the criminals have done.
    That's fine. As I said, I don't agree with it on a philosophical level any more than on a religious one. I'm much more of an "eye for an eye" type than the "forgive and forget" type. I just hope that at no point in your life do you experience the sort of things that will make you wake up and see the world for the way it truly is..... A Dog eat Dog experience where only the Strong survive. There are only two types of people in the world... Predators and Prey. If you aren't the first, you're definitely the second.

  9. #249
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    Re: Death Penalty

    I couldn't take a life myself, so I don't think I should support someone else doing it for me.

  10. #250
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    Re: Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Experts could not show doubt that arson occurred, definite or otherwise. They could simply not conclude that arson definitely occurred. These are two very different findings.
    No. There was no evidence of arson. They could show a reasonable doubt that arson even occurred, which would easily satisfy an acquittal that a person had to be found guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". How can anyone be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt when there is a reasonable doubt that a crime even occurred?

    They had no evidence of accelerant anywhere inside that house. They only had a fire investigator who said that he had seen many marks like that before, and they always indicated arson. Yet, experts proved that the marks being referred to were almost never caused by arson, but rather a large influx of air hitting the fire, raising its temperature.

    I have read up on this case extensively and this guy never would have been convicted if not for the fire investigator's claim that the fire was arson.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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