View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #1
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    Guns

    What do you think about gun control? Poll speaks for its self.

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    Re: Guns

    One problem with the poll is States like Arizona is an open carry State. it is also legal to carry a concealed weapon without a permit (with some limits).
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    Re: Guns

    In Arizona it's let everyone have a gun. I don't recall, have we had any problems here?

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    Re: Guns

    I think guns are like a lot things, like marijuana, alcohol etc, is that when you make laws to ban them, it only puts the control of them in the hands of criminals. I don't think people on probation, or violent felons should be allowed to purchase or own guns, but other than that just leave it alone.
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by cthomp View Post
    What do you think about gun control? Poll speaks for its self.


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    Re: Guns

    It depends on the situation, lets not pretend that the world is so simple that "this works the same everywhere all the time" is reality... unless we are talking about gravity.

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    Re: Guns

    “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed…Everyone who is able may have a gun.”

    —Patrick Henry—
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Guns

    Wisconsin just passed its open carry law and we've already seen one instance where vigilante justice was carried out in a grocery store. In a nutshell, two robbers entered the store, one was armed and the other was not. A man carrying a gun shot the armed robber and stopped it from happening.

    Now don't get me wrong, hooray for the trigger happy customer. However, lets say he missed and shot the innocent bystander behind the robber. I know its a serious stretch here, but he WAS in a grocery opening fire. I just don't get the whole argument that "the more guns the better" (hocks a loogey ina spitoon)
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    In Arizona it's let everyone have a gun. I don't recall, have we had any problems here?
    Only in gun-free zones.

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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Wisconsin just passed its open carry law and we've already seen one instance where vigilante justice was carried out in a grocery store. In a nutshell, two robbers entered the store, one was armed and the other was not. A man carrying a gun shot the armed robber and stopped it from happening.
    That's self defense, not vigilantism, because the armed customer was not carrying out a punishment, but stopping a crime in progress. There's a very big significant difference there.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Now don't get me wrong, hooray for the trigger happy customer.
    Nothing "trigger happy" about controlled and lawful use of any firearm.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    However, lets say he missed and shot the innocent bystander behind the robber.
    The state would investigate his actions and he would very likely be sued civilly. Whether or not he would actualy be convicted of anything is highly circumstantial and fact-dependent.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    I know its a serious stretch here, but he WAS in a grocery opening fire.
    It's not much of a stretch, actually. One has to be aware of their target's background.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    I just don't get the whole argument that "the more guns the better" (hocks a loogey ina spitoon)
    Ahh, I can help you with that:
    Two Little Square Black Dogs: I do not have a gun... I am not a murderer

    ....The LA Times had an article about the The European disdain for America violence but shouldn't spend too much time congratulating themselves. In 2000 the rate at which people where assaulted was higher in England, Scotland, Finland, Denmark and Sweden than in The United States. In the decade since England banned all private possessions of gun the number of gun crimes has gone up.Some of the worst examples of mass gun violence has occurred in Europe from students and teachers killed in Germany, 14 legislators shot in Switzerland to 8 city council members being shot outside of Paris.
    Just recently a taxi driver in Cumbria, England killed 12 people and wounded 11.
    UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph

    Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offenses in the UK since Labour came to power.

    The total number of violent offenses recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
    The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
    By James Slack

    Last updated at 12:14 AM on 3rd July 2009




    In the decade following the party's election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million - or more than two every minute.

    The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:


    • The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
    • It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
    • The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
    • It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.



    But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.

    In the UK, there are 2,034 offenses per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.
    The intentional homicide rate shows North America is lower than Eastern Europe, and also lower than the world average, and FAR lower than MANY other regions in the world.

    List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/c...9/rp99-111.pdf

    The homicide rate (per capita) in England and Wales was 9.1 in the year 1900, a time when gun control laws were relatively lax. In 2009, when gun laws are of draconian strictness, the homicide rate is 14.1
    This is from an official parliament report.

    ********************


    [quote=Jerry;1058558232]
    EDITORIAL: Guns decrease murder rates
    In Washington, the best defense is self-defense
    By THE WASHINGTON TIMES


    More guns in law-abiding hands mean less crime. The District of Columbia proves the point.

    <snip>

    Few who lived in Washington during the 1970s can forget the upswing in crime that started right after the ban was originally passed. In the five years before the 1977 ban, the murder rate fell from 37 to 27 murders per 100,000. In the five years after the gun ban went into effect, the murder rate rose back up to 35. One fact is particularly hard to ignore: D.C.'s murder rate fluctuated after 1976 but only once fell below what it was in 1976 before the ban. That aberration happened years later, in 1985.

    This correlation between the D.C. gun ban and diminished safety was not a coincidence. Look at the Windy City. Immediately after Chicago banned handguns in 1982, the murder rate, which had been falling almost continually for a decade, started to rise. Chicago's murder rate rose relative to other large cities as well. The phenomenon of higher murder rates after gun bans are passed is not just limited to the United States. Every single time a country has passed a gun ban, its murder rate soared.


    <snip>
    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive
    Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?
    A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence.
    Din B. Kates* and Gary Mauser**


    The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

    The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

    Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population)
    .
    DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER

    ~snip~

    We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those "in common use at the time." 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of "dangerous and unusual weapons."

    ~snip~

    It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service--M-16 rifles and the like--may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment's ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

    FindLaw | Cases and Codes
    Pistol: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Automatic rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Grenade launcher: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Patriot missile battery: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Nuclear warheads: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.


    Tanks are not weapons. Tanks are vehicles weapons can be mounted in, but anyone with enough money to buy one can own one. That doesn't mean you can have a functioning cannon, 50cal machine gun, 2 saw machine guns, or grenades...it means you can ave the tank and the tank only.

    You can own a black hawk helicopter, also...doesn't mean you can have the twin mini-guns.


    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.

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