View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #501
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If you think you are able, by all means do.
    Well since you asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Years ago, one could support gun owners rights and still lobby for legislation on the subject. That is no longer possible in this current political environment which has taken a hard right turn. For some - and I say some and not all or even a majority - the First Amendment has supplanted the Second Amendment regarding gun rights in that their devotion and love of firearms is far closer to a religious like fervor based on willful belief than anything else. And right from little many are taught it is dangerous and nonproductive to mess with peoples religious beliefs.
    Bull****, the same groups are using the same flawed arguments from the '60s today verbatim and they are still being talked about, that you consider rebuttle with FACT to be some kind of attack is paranoid at best and dishonest at worst. It's also telling that you would whine about not being able to restrict the rights of others. Secondly, mischaracterizing people who fight for any right is as blatantly false and misleading as it comes. But of course integrity and being correct weren't the goals.
    Once upon a time, when we had mass killings in which firearms were involved, rational people discussed it and ideas for legislation were introduced and debated. We just saw three young people slaughtered in Chardon, Ohio and instead of spurring national discussion, those who want to do so are charged with using dead children to promote an agenda which is never identified.
    Bull****, the only thing that happened is anti-gun zealots paraded these victims out as a "see, this is why we need........." argument in a sick and sub-human attempt to put the anti-gun agenda above all else including dignity, manners, and human sympathy. You are wrong here.
    There simply is no current environment for rational discussion on this topic
    Bull****, there was plenty of civil discussion going on in this thread alone, until people unnamed came in with the same predictable and tired talking points.

    You want more?

    Do you believe that the Second Amendment as it is now seen in the USA is a pure good? Or do you see it as something with a good side and a bad side but where the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
    Pure logic fail. It does not matter what anyone sees the right as, it exists whether you like it or not and the writing is clear. Yet another example of you being WRONG. And displaying a severe lack of knowledge of things both firearm and constitutional. Emotional or rhetorical arguments are massive fails when dealing with the BOR.

    I am pro Second Amendment. I am convinced that
    The **** you are. I have seen nothing at all to indicate you either know about or support the second and neither has anyone else. You come at the issue with conditions which automatically invalidates your claim.

    Anyway, that's all I can stand to look up right now. I'm sure there's more.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #502
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    lets get back to the idiocy of calling victims of criminals heroes of the SECOND AMENDMENT

    were the victims of 9-11 heroes of TOLERANCE OF ISLAM

    Columbine-HEROES OF GOTH?
    Take up your cause with the nation who honored them and those who paid and built their memorials.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  3. #503
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    you are talking about "militias", as in private armies.

    I am talking about "MILITIA"...as in the ones prescribed in our Constitution.
    Read back, I've got you both ways. They are in the militia as able bodied men 18-45, they are private militia in that you must have a common ground(membership) to be involved in their activities, and they drill regularly. They organize as a unit and they have used weapons. That being said they are the definition of a militia in every sense of the word. You have no standing with your current argument.

    please, show me how private armies, that are not sworn to uphold the Constitution of the USA, and are not willing & able to be trained, supervised, disciplined by a State selected Officer....and are not willing & able to be activated by the government to defend the country from outside enemies and put down insurrections, is legal?
    Don't have to, you are making a false claim. They are subject to call ups during martial law, and are not prohibited by the U.S.C. or any state laws so they are legal. What part do you not get?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #504
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    Re: Guns

    LAMid - nothing you reproduced from me in your post was refuted by you as factually wrong. Nothing. you argue about your opinion - so what? You hold your views. So what?

    You are still impotent to find one thing that I am factually wrong about regarding the Second Amendment.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #505
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    LAMid - nothing you reproduced from me in your post was refuted by you as factually wrong. Nothing. you argue about your opinion - so what? You hold your views. So what?

    You are still impotent to find one thing that I am factually wrong about regarding the Second Amendment.
    All of it was factually wrong on your part. The facts are you didn't bring any facts at all, just opinions passed on as facts. Secondly I readily defeated your "all reasonable people....blah, blah, blah" crap, just in this thread alone there was reasonable debate.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #506
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Take up your cause with the nation who honored them and those who paid and built their memorials.
    being honored with a memorial doesn't make one a hero. Heroes are people like Alvin York, Audie Murphy or former Cornell Lacrosse All American Eamon McEneaney, an EVP of Cantor Fitzgerald who rescued people during the first WTC bombing and died in the second

  7. #507
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Read back, I've got you both ways. They are in the militia as able bodied men 18-45...
    wow, quote mining the Militia Act of 1792? that's pretty dishonest.

    "That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of power and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.

    Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act,.........it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth the militia of such state to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed



    sooo.....were the Black Panthers willing to fulfill their duties so prescribed by this Militia Act?

    have they shown up for exercises or service at the behest of the Federal government?

    I thought not. By any clear & honest understanding of what the Constitution & the Militia Act of 1792 calls for, our modern-day right wing "militias"...are in fact NOT the Militia. Nor are the Black Panthers.

    and why not? they have no State appointed commanding officer. They are unwilling to follow the orders & supervision of the Department of Defense. They are unwilling to assist the govt. in putting down insurrections & mutinees against the laws of the United States of America.

  8. #508
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In college did they teach you about the debate fallacy known as Argumentum ad populum?
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It matters not what you call and what you do not. Visit the memorials and see for yourself. Or is your opinion more important than those who built those monuments and memorials and called them heroes?
    I must not understand the fallacy known as Argumentum ad populum.

  9. #509
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    wow, quote mining the Militia Act of 1792? that's pretty dishonest.

    "That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of power and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.

    Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act,.........it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth the militia of such state to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed



    sooo.....were the Black Panthers willing to fulfill their duties so prescribed by this Militia Act?

    have they shown up for exercises or service at the behest of the Federal government?

    I thought not. By any clear & honest understanding of what the Constitution & the Militia Act of 1792 calls for, our modern-day right wing "militias"...are in fact NOT the Militia. Nor are the Black Panthers.

    and why not? they have no State appointed commanding officer. They are unwilling to follow the orders & supervision of the Department of Defense. They are unwilling to assist the govt. in putting down insurrections & mutinees against the laws of the United States of America.
    Desperate much? If you read correctly any one of them assembled and armed was the very definition of the first clause which is still in use, the second is not. If they did not fill out their selective service cards they are still considered part of the militia but broke federal law. Which part do you want me to address?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #510
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Desperate much?...
    you're clearly projecting.

    the Militia Act of 1792 clearly spells out all the requirements & conditions of The Militia.

    its clear as day. its unambiguous. no private army that refuses to fight for the USA, enforce our laws, put down insurrections against the laws of the USA, assist in putting down mutinees against the USA, and answer to the call of the President of the United States, is NO Militia.

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